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Author Topic: best air force in south america  (Read 34593 times)

Offline Gripen

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Re: best air force in south america
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2007, 04:48:21 AM »
Peru? I would of thought Brazil and Argentina

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: best air force in south america
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2007, 12:12:55 PM »
Well, Gripen, thanks there for "Argentina" :P, but maybe if I talk a little bit about this...

Pilots in Argentina are very good, brave and those skills you would like a pilot to have... but our problem is the lack of new material. We lack of new planes. The best we have are Mirages IIIEA, from the sixties, not even close to a dogfighter; Super Etendard, not so bad for maritimal attacks, and so, but definitely not a good fighter, and performance is not astonishing, good combination with Exocet, proved; A-4AR, recently modernized, but again, lack of material: it is prepared to carry the AMRAAM (AIM-120) which we don't have, and don't think they'll sell to us, it's natural pourpose was not as a fighter, though it would perform very well as one, as shown on the CRUZEX III exercise, two A-4AR from the FAA "shot down" two F-5BR from the FAB (so here is where I am in doubt).
What Brazil has is a really big Air Force, apart from the new AWACS system...

I hope I didn't bored you all with this post...
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Offline Globetrotter

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Re: best air force in south america
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2007, 12:16:13 PM »
Now this is a though question. I just know to little about this subject. I know which one i would choose as a favourite, but the best one is to hard for me to vote on at the moment.   :-\

Btw, welcome to the forum Terminator!  :)

Which is your favourite?? ;D
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Offline Viggen

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Re: best air force in south america
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2007, 12:28:44 AM »
The Brasilian air force, but i know nothing about them or the others. The reason i choose them is because Brasilian air force cadettes escorted Ayrton Sennas cascet through Sao Paulo and the air force made a very nice fly by.  So my choice is based on more a feeling i felt in my heart, then a decision based on facts.   :-\
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Re: best air force in south america
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2007, 06:46:58 PM »
i think thatPeru have a good air force but Brazil are the best in south america

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Re: best air force in south america
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2007, 11:07:24 PM »
I'm new to this post but did read both sections and have questions and comments.   Maybe the people from South America might be able to help with this.   How many hours do South American pilots train per year?  Which country trains more and how is the training setup?   A lot has to do with funding like anything else but some smaller countries do very well with the little they have.   If I had to chose:
Brazil- They do very well with the F-5 fleet as far upgrading and training and now they have Mirage 2000-C, AMX attack jets that were upgrade, plus AWAC aircraft too.   All these assets train together and are exposure to other countries air forces in different types of training.   All good things for a well rounded air force to carry out it help that Brazil has the money and resources to do this.   

Next I would pick Chile
Ten modern F-16 C/D Block-52, 16 or 18 F-16 MLU ex-Holland upgraded Vipers, (1) Israeli made AWAC aircraft, Israeli upgraded F-5s, plus a number of Mirage 5/50/ maybe Kfir’s too.  I’m not sure on those numbers or if some were sold or retired.   They carry out training with other air forces which is always good.  From what I’ve about the US Air Force personnel saying Chile’s pilots and crew are very good and there air force is well run.   Brazil and Chile I think currently are the best.

Offline fizzog17

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Re: best air force in south america
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2007, 11:49:58 PM »
in my personal opinion  i would say brazil due to there technological advancement over the other countries, just my 2 cents  :)
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Re: best air force in south america
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2007, 02:28:26 AM »
The first two are easy picking number 3, 4, 5, and6 are more difficult.
Venezuela-Has the money behind them and before Chavez stopped having brain cells his F-16s were still pretty good.   The VAF Vipers and Mirages were from what I’ve read were kept in good shape.   I’m not sure how many flight hours’ pilots received, and training and maintenance means everything to an air force.    The new Flankers pilots if trained right could be flying under two years solo and maybe being dangerous in 3 or 4 years.   Less if SIMs and good training were provided from the beginning so you can’t hold me to this time table.
Ecuador, Peru, Argentina   
Very tough Ecuador does very well with little they have and some of there aircraft are in deep storage. I only heard good things about there Kfir’s but funding problems are hurting them.   It’s a coin toss between Peru and Ecuador because from the little I was able to find out about Peru was only six or seven Mig-29s are flyable and there Mirage 2000s all need parts, so there not flown a lot.   It’s hard to get a number on how many are flyable or what shape there really in Peru isn’t such an open country.  Very difficult choice on paper Peru seems to have a little more but what shape there is unknown.   I use to know a guy from Ecuador and he would always tell me Ecuador trains there pilots better.   Both of these countries suffer from no money and lack of resources for new aircraft or even spare parts.   Both could do better but sadly both Ecuador and Peru’s air force have seen better times.    Argentina might have suffered more cut back then either Ecuador or Peru has.  It seems Argentina’s armed forces has been scaled down and a lot of there aircraft are dated.  A-4 are one of my favorite aircraft of all times don’t get me wrong it’s just in 2007 Argentina’s current fighters and attack aircraft have seen better days.   Experience wise all three Argentina 1982 and Peru-Ecuador 1995 wouldn’t have any or very few pilots from those years left flying so that’s a moot point.   Brazil pilots probably racks up the most time and stick experience now with Chile running second, both hold and take part in training with other air forces and that’s big and means a lot.   I’m sure Peru, Ecuador, and Argentina could do much better with more funding and all three have a good air force history.   Like with most things in life it comes down to money.   If somebody could give an update on Peru, Ecuador, and Argentina’s air force like how many jets are flying and what shape there please put it up, thanks in advance.    I read a few years back all of Peru’s Mirage Vs are in storage and won’t fly again.   Any updated info would be helpful.   

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: best air force in south america
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2007, 04:26:41 AM »
I have to admit you are quite right about Argentina. Priority is being given to other sectors. And our aircraft are ageing, no matter how modernised they are.

A-4AR are quite better than the bare A-4. They have the basic F-16 radar, and they can fire AIM-120 (though we son't have of those) So it would turn into an useful machine and I would think twice before entering in combat with an AIM-120-armed airplane...
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Re: best air force in south america
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2007, 04:00:20 PM »
Argentina is looking at the Mirage 2000, in similar way Brazil did, refurbished to Mirage 2000-5 standard. Alternatively the French government is offering surplus Mirage F1CT to Argentina. Also the MS.760 Paris have been retired now more AT-63 trainers/light attack jets are entering service.

Peru had a dissimilar combat exercise with the USAF. F-16 vs M2000 and F-16 vs MiG-29 all with WVR weapons. The FAP detachment counted 3 Mirage 2000, and 3 MiG-29s. Of each trio, one was a double-seater. Peru has three Mi-29SE with better radar and R-77 capability, two of them were involved in this exercise although only with R-73. I think the MiG fleet (16 remaining is in much better condition since the ties with RAC MiG are better, 6/7 airworthy might be true, but I heard this number since 1999. The FAP is currently planning how to extend service life till 2020 and upgrade to have R-77 capability for all single-seaters.
They certainly got those Mirage 2000s back in the air, at least some of them.

When talking about Peru, I see that the Su-22, Su-25, A-37 are often forgotten because they are not fighters but bombers/strike aircraft. The conflict with Ecuador showed it needed a better air defense capability, but that doesn't mean these jets are completely useless.
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Re: best air force in south america
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2007, 04:16:01 PM »
I'm new to this post but did read both sections and have questions and comments.   Maybe the people from South America might be able to help with this.   How many hours do South American pilots train per year?  Which country trains more and how is the training setup?   A lot has to do with funding like anything else but some smaller countries do very well with the little they have.   If I had to chose:
Brazil- They do very well with the F-5 fleet as far upgrading and training and now they have Mirage 2000-C, AMX attack jets that were upgrade, plus AWAC aircraft too.   All these assets train together and are exposure to other countries air forces in different types of training.   All good things for a well rounded air force to carry out it help that Brazil has the money and resources to do this.   

Next I would pick Chile
Ten modern F-16 C/D Block-52, 16 or 18 F-16 MLU ex-Holland upgraded Vipers, (1) Israeli made AWAC aircraft, Israeli upgraded F-5s, plus a number of Mirage 5/50/ maybe Kfir’s too.  I’m not sure on those numbers or if some were sold or retired.   They carry out training with other air forces which is always good.  From what I’ve about the US Air Force personnel saying Chile’s pilots and crew are very good and there air force is well run.   Brazil and Chile I think currently are the best.


I have voted on Brazil now as well, primarily because they also do good in other areas beside fighters. I agree Chile comes second, with the new F-16s, upgraded F-5s and the Condor. The Mirage 5M Elkans were retired though. Not sure about the status of the Panteras. The second hand F-16 were MLUed block 5/15 F-16A/Bs. Old fighters yes, but good value for money considering the MLU upgrade. AIM-120 and PGM! I think they are MLU phase 1, 2, or 3 at max though. If they are smart they join the MLU program, and get them upgraded with phase 4 and 5 as well, adding JDAM, Link16, and helmet mounted sight. And get some LANTIRN pods.
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Offline Globetrotter

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Re: best air force in south america
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2007, 04:47:12 PM »
Oh please not Mirages F-1!!! How better can they be than the Mirage III? Yeah, sure, they must have some improvements, but that is not the same, in 7-8 years they should be replaced again! :-\
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