MILAVIA Forum - Military Aviation Discussion Forum

Author Topic: Thailand buys Gripen, or will they?  (Read 17852 times)

Offline tigershark

  • News Editor
  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 2025
Re: Thailand buys Gripen, or will they?
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2007, 10:06:47 PM »
Quote
Recently? Does it really matter?
I mean...
1956 Israeli-Arab war (a colonial war btw)
1967 Six Day war ("pre-emtive defensive strike" in short attack)
1981 a strike against iraqi nuclear facility*
1982 invasion of Lebanon
2006 Lebanon war
2007 Strike against Syria
... were not excatly what I'd call defense

There are three sides to most issues and the way they were listed made it sound like everything Israel did or does is wrong.  England and France have a lot to be blamed for the way the region was split up and way they handle many situations.   People forget that Israel made that country out an s____ hole in the desert not anybody else.  And Lebanon a problem created by Syria to get the focus out its own country and there many internal problems.   The areas where Israel was before the wars or in 1948 was not filled up with so many people.   Remember that countries like Jordan, Syria, and Egypt kick thousand and thousand of Palestine’s out there country and forced them into places like the west bank and other surrounding areas.  They were the second class citizens in all this country I listed and weren’t wanted, but that gets over looked by the press.  They were problems for the English and French before the Israeli were in power but that gets over looks as well.   Jordan’s king killed hundreds and basically forces them out of his country and onto Israeli’s door step.  Every country I named had internal problems at the time and most still does, and the best way to control people is give them a cause.  That cause is Israel it’s easy to make the problem on the next block and not your.  Its basic get and keep the masses busy hating something else and they won’t realize how bad there own country is.   Remember support in this region basically are the people supplying you and your family with your next meal, it’s poor and rough region to live it.   None of these three governments want any extra internal problem it’s better to keep the crazies pointing outward.   All these three countries and region were fighting each other for thousands of years even before 1948.   If you take away the Christ thing more people would be on the Israeli’s side but its how we were raised and it’s instilled in our heads, there bad no matter they do basically.   And how many countries give back what they won in wars right! but because there Israel and they should?   Hundreds of countries around the world would have change there borders if we did that.   What double standards we place on them that’s because the deep rooted religion thing.  We blame them for something we don’t even know they did that thousands of years ago.   Religion is very powerful and most wars in the past and in current times are still being waged because of it.   Because somebody wrote something a few hundreds years after the fact why weren’t the Romans blame for killing Christ didn’t they put Christ on the cross and stab him with the sword?  Rome held all the power back then Israeli’s were salves to and being killed daily.  Rome was the regional power they were in firm control, and they were the law.  Funny thing about writing history is what were they going to do blame themselves?  It’s always easier blaming somebody else right even in current times we do that.   I have somebody who from the region who lives on my block and his 72 year mother lives three blocks from the former PLO HQs and both sides do nasty things to each other just so I’m clear on that.  Nobody is perfect and there is bad being done to and from.  It’s always outsider keeping things active there it’s never just the two sides that live there aloud to work things out.   My friend has been in the US for 28 years and he’s like the Mayor of my block, but he even says 95 percent of all the weapons and bad people and support is from Iran, passing through Syria.   Did Israel take land from Iran too?   Its simple religion hate in the name of god we keep killing ourselves.     

Offline alyster

  • Hero of Flight
  • ******
  • Posts: 523
  • Country: ee
Re: Thailand buys Gripen, or will they?
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2007, 10:29:53 PM »
Wow you kinda remind me my third world problems' lector. I know there's alot of sides there. After all we may as well blame the fundametalists (of both sides). But the simple fact is that the dates above were Israeli offensives, Israel still does occupy Palestinian lands, illegally btw. So if Thailand can't get Gripens/Falcons cause of a coup and a "danger of using them in offensive way" then why should Israel get such aid packages?

I'm not against aiding Israel, I have many online friends from there, many from who were in the last Lebanon conflict, but the excuse to not to sell planes to Thailand is hilarious compared to Israel.
Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes

Offline tigershark

  • News Editor
  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 2025
Re: Thailand buys Gripen, or will they?
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2007, 05:13:46 PM »
Sorry for lecture it was we bit long maybe when the fundamentalists as you call them stop shooting rockets and blowing up people for good, maybe Israel will move out.    Until it's just Palestinians and Israeli's trying to work things out (basically my entire adult life went by without this happening) nothing will change to much hate still being brought into the pot.   Outsiders must go or the suffering won't stop on both sides.   I'll stop on this topic.

Quote
alyster
but the excuse to not to sell planes to Thailand is hilarious compared to Israel.
What does Israel have to do with in the first place?   

Many countries sell weapon,aircraft, etc which turn out to be used offensively look at half of Africa, how did Israel get sucked into this again?    Would the Swedish government have to make this decision about Thailand government? 

Quote
Viggen
True, but the rules are still confusing. How come Israel got to buy F-16´s, while we all know that they are used in a offensive way, by bombing Palestinians?
My friend Viggen the US did sell advance F-16s to Israel to bomb the Palestinians they were sold for like in the past, if they were attacked by one or more countries at the same time that were getting for free or off-set price Russian weapons by the ton.   Maybe if some of those six foot long rockets mounted on a light truck weren't allowed to just drive down your friendly  Palestinian street maybe the need to knock them out wouldn't come up as much.   Jets or fast movers are basically used for attacking a larger enough target to be useful or speed is needed to reach a target, before the killers can run and hide among the non killing people who live in happy Palestinian.   Twenty people on the street won't see where the truck or the killers who launched went because it's the Palestinian thing to do, to look the other way.  You know keep hiding and supporting the people that bring your country down.    But sixty-seven people will see the F-16 and can even read the serial number on it's tail fin.  Some of the nice Palestinians will even rent a shed or a place to park the truck too, but that's ok.   And the next day in the press the poor Palestinian lost his shed that was passed down to him from his fathers fathers fathers, right.   And the best part will be he'll say Israeli's F-16 war planes sold by the United States in semi clear English for no reason just blew up my shed.  And I thought only my country was covered so badly in the press and rip down at every chance possible,wow.   

alyster, Viggen - javascript:void(0);
Smiley  - you guys are like my favorite posters
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 05:24:58 PM by nonpilot »

Offline alyster

  • Hero of Flight
  • ******
  • Posts: 523
  • Country: ee
Re: Thailand buys Gripen, or will they?
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2007, 10:26:31 PM »
A woman from CNN whose name i sadly can't recall made a film about "God's Jewish Worriors" From the picture I get from there most of the settlements are settled also by fundamentalists, who think that they own that land because God gave it to them and their princible is to make as much settlements as possible to keep the land. So I don't look at it from one single side.
I think we got into this Israeli topic due to a comparison with teh thai case. Someone atlist mentioned it above. This is quite logical, Israel is the most extream example of first world military contracts and aid. But you are right, enough of this topic.

About Africa... well alot of the weapons were sold to there at Cold war era, to support the first world friendly regimes. Nowdays things have changed on that level.
Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes

Offline Viggen

  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 1413
  • Country: se
  • We are not promised a tomorrow.
Re: Thailand buys Gripen, or will they?
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2007, 11:52:09 PM »
Many countries sell weapon,aircraft, etc which turn out to be used offensively look at half of Africa, how did Israel get sucked into this again?  My fault, i used Israel as an example.  :) 

Would the Swedish government have to make this decision about Thailand government?  Yes!

Quote
My friend Viggen the US did sell advance F-16s to Israel to bomb the Palestinians they were sold for like in the past, if they were attacked by one or more countries at the same time that were getting for free or off-set price Russian weapons by the ton.   

Quote from webmaster: "They are taking deliveries of new F-16I "Sufa", as we speak. They are Block 52 two-seaters, with CFT and lots of Israeli components of course. 50 ordered in 2000, 52 more in 2001, first deliveries in 2003, final deliveries in 2009. Deal of 4.5 billion USD."

This is not about blaming countries for their oppinions. I just think its hypocritical to take a stance like this, not making a deal because the weapons might be used for war.  :)
  • Interests: SAAB 37 Viggen
Patrik S.

Offline tigershark

  • News Editor
  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 2025
Re: Thailand buys Gripen, or will they?
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2007, 04:08:24 AM »
Hi Viggen
But it's hypocritical of your government right or am I missing something?   Moving along I think they should sell them it's a cut throat market we know used Vipers or Flankers will be sold in it's place in a heartbeat.   And if the Falcon production lines stay open for a large Taiwan order they won't be used ones there be brand new with AESA radar's in them armed with Slammers.   Viggen I hate to say it but time isn't on your country's side if they wait to long.

We always here of used Vipers being sold but does Russia ever sell used Flankers?  I'm sure they must have them Su-27 or maybe some Su-30s produced for sales but never sold?    Any C/D Viper from the United States is going to have a lot of hours on it's frame maybe some Su-27s would be better deals?   Didn't Indonesia buy a few Su-27s not Su-30s some years back?   

alyster- no more on the other topic as you can see back to aviation smile face (my smile faces don't work right)

Peace anybody

Offline Viggen

  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 1413
  • Country: se
  • We are not promised a tomorrow.
Re: Thailand buys Gripen, or will they?
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2007, 05:45:55 PM »
Hi nonpilot!

Nope, your not missing. You are right, this is what i was trying to tell, that its hypocritical. But this goes not just for Sweden but for many other counties that are involved with some sort of weapons export. Its like they are trying to justify the deals so they can sleep better at nights.

He he, has time ever been on Sweden´s side?  ;)
  • Interests: SAAB 37 Viggen
Patrik S.

Offline Webmaster

  • MILAVIA Webmaster
  • Administrator
  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 2842
  • Country: nl
Re: Thailand buys Gripen, or will they?
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2007, 01:37:42 AM »
Any news Viggen? Or when will the Swedish government make their decision to approve/disapprove the deal?
  • Interests: Su-15, Su-27, Tu-22, Tornado, RNLAF
Niels Hillebrand
MILAVIA Webmaster

Offline Viggen

  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 1413
  • Country: se
  • We are not promised a tomorrow.
Re: Thailand buys Gripen, or will they?
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2007, 02:45:26 AM »
No news at all, seems like they are really keeping the lid locked. They are probably hoping that ppl forget about the deal or something. Maybe Thailand got a better offer?  ???
  • Interests: SAAB 37 Viggen
Patrik S.

 



AVIATION TOP 100 - www.avitop.com click to vote for MILAVIA