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Author Topic: The Tanker Joke - round... 4, I think?  (Read 35889 times)

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Re: The Tanker Joke - round... 4, I think?
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2010, 05:10:42 PM »
"Antonov and U.S. Aerospace, Inc. will bid three models for the KC-X program, the AN-124-KC, AN-122-KC, a twin-engine variant of the AN-124-100 with advanced engines, electronics and avionics, and AN-112-KC, an updated airframe designed specifically to meet the tanker program requirements."

The An-112-KC seems to be the most realistic contender, it's basically a An-70 with two turbofans. Russia/Ukraine recently came to an agreement to resume An-70 program. But there's still a lot of work to be done to have it with turbofans and as tanker.


Surely, they can't expect to win this, maybe some very risk-taking investors think. Nah, I'm thinking this US Aerospace thought this to be a perfect PR/Marketing tool. There's hardly any info available on the aircraft on their site. Bidding is not cheap, but you get so much media exposure / stock price probably went up? For Antonov it puts it back in the spotlight again, and I guess they thought what better way to promote our An-124 on the US market.

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Re: The Tanker Joke - round... 4, I think?
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2010, 08:56:53 PM »
I agree with you that US Aerospace must be getting some OTHER benefits from this venture as their proposal has NO chance of ever winning. I'm not saying Antonov won't make a competent product but winning the proposal will never happen for so many more reasons.
Wars are won by carrying the 'heavy iron' downtown!

Offline shawn a

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Re: The Tanker Joke - round... 4, I think?
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2010, 09:03:30 PM »
Maybe it's seen by U.S. Aerospace as a "foot in the door" for the KC-Y, and KC-Z programs.
The -124 is HUGE,
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Re: The Tanker Joke - round... 4, I think?
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2010, 06:24:06 AM »
Well, bids are in... 4 months, and we'll know... 5 months and we'll have another round?
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Offline shawn a

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Re: The Tanker Joke - round... 4, I think?
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2010, 06:18:54 AM »
DING!!! Ladies and gentlemen, round 5 begins!
US Aerospace claims the Air Force delayed their messenger at the gate, gave him wrong directions to the office which was to receive the bid, and delayed him when he became lost, according to AW&ST and US Aerosp[ace
The proposal was about 5 minutes late. I wish the F-35 program was only 5minutes late!
A sharp attorney could claim that if the phrase "local time" was not used in stating the deadline, then sidereal time should apply, and the bid should be considered as being delivered on time.
Shawn A
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 02:39:43 AM by Admin »

Offline shawn a

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Re: The Tanker Joke - round... 4, I think?
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2010, 09:30:51 PM »
Uh-- how'd the type get so damn big?

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Re: The Tanker Joke - round... 4, I think?
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2010, 02:40:38 AM »
because the 36pt size DING wasn't closed by a [/size] endtag. I fixed it for ya.

hmm yeah deadline is deadline, but agreed that it should be considered, it would be ridiculous not to on something like that.

« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 02:48:15 AM by Admin »
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Offline shawn a

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Re: The Tanker Joke - round... 4, I think?
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2010, 08:30:19 AM »
Well, a decision on the protest of U.S. Aerospace over the alleged "intentional delay" has been speeded up to 65 days over the usual 100 days, according to AW&ST.
For a low bid of 29 billion vs. bids of around 35 billion, this seems at least worth a look, as far as I'm concerned.
Robert Gates-- take note of the potential savings!! It's one of your main concerns, right?

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Re: The Tanker Joke - round... 4, I think?
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2010, 04:10:45 AM »
Hold there, Shawn, you're confusing him. Doesn't he needs to have "real american" jobs, so he can cut personnel from the services.

Seriously though, that's quite a difference! Even when looking at it proportional.
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Offline shawn a

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Re: The Tanker Joke - round... 4, I think?
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2010, 05:51:40 AM »
Good one!
But seriously, folks, isn't Antonov's proposed aircraft even more "unreal" than Boeing's? A twin-jet AN-70?

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Re: The Tanker Joke - round... 4, I think?
« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2010, 06:22:17 AM »
You mean the aircraft? It's interesting, so I don't want to say it's unreal. I don't know yet, so few details, haven't researched well.  But it's not like they're doing something completely different. It still is very conventional, existing tech, and all, right? I don't like to fall in this trap that because of the lack of progress and records of way-older aircraft serviced by conscripts, in other times, designed by a company that isn't the same as it was, in a system that's very different, that it can't be good. They'll have to deal with that though in PR, but they've got ammo thanks to the An-124.

But honestly, I should have more info before I can say anything, and even then who am I? So okay...   

Antonov: They're finally moving on the An-70, they're building airliners, and they did the An-32, An-74, An-124... which are still selling today. US Aerospace, maybe just what Antonov needs... but I hardly know anything about US Aerospace, and their website... well, sorry guys, is crap.

You know them Shawn?

Seems like they were known as New Century Companies, Inc. and under that name acquired several precision engineering, aerostructure, and tooling companies. All the stuff needed to setup a line? And/or possibly redo Antonov's tooling? Then get a bunch of subcontractors, like Boeing, or just subcontract a company for the final assembly as well... or Ukraine... somewhere else overseas?

The risk seems more in the company, setting up shop and sorting out the supply chain, than in the aircraft's design...

So I think the bid is unreal...the aircraft may not, I can eventually see some low numbers going here and there, before EMBRAER gets in their way. But the thing is... investment. Probably won't be enough without the USAF order in. However, seeing that making the bid already got investments in... I can see why they're bidding. Boeing is slow, their business is slow, let's bid against them and get investments to survive/get strong, and then when they win, we'll be a better subcontractor than we are now? Antonov probably winning as well... hmm, yeah, maybe for these two, the bid has a good ROI, even without winning. For Boeing it will be money down the drain if they lost... EADS.. break-even?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 06:59:42 AM by Admin »
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Offline shawn a

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Re: The Tanker Joke - round... 4, I think?
« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2010, 09:12:09 AM »
It's late here, I'll think a bit more about this and get back to you after the Watsonville Fly-In tomorrow. I may get to take an aerobatic flight in a Christen Eagle tomorrow if we can dig up a parachute for me to use.
Shawn

 



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