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Military Aviation => Air Forces => Topic started by: Air Marshal on May 17, 2005, 07:47:49 AM

Title: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Air Marshal on May 17, 2005, 07:47:49 AM

 PAKISTAN AIR FORCE IS BEST OF ALL .............
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on May 17, 2005, 03:23:42 PM
I dont want to argue, but the Swedish air force is the best. We build our own planes, suited for our purpose, weather and tactics.  :)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Webmaster on May 17, 2005, 05:28:48 PM
Have you voted or not? Because I added the SwAF   :P
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Ramon on May 17, 2005, 10:19:36 PM
The swedisch airforce has absolute an beautifull airforce. ;D
But.............

I will go for the USA airforce and navy.
They have the latest and the best equipment. And the F-14 Tomcat......... ;)
And can overpower and overrun any airforce in this period of time in the world.

So in my humble opinion, is the USA the best airforce, from the list above.

Best Regards, Ramon.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on May 18, 2005, 07:53:41 AM
Well, i voted. Im the one who put my vote on RAF since SWAF wasen´t available.  :-\

I see that many votes for USAF, but i dont think they really are the best. They have the tools but im still a bit skeptic about their ability overall. During Desert Storm, the tornado-pilots got the toughest assignments like taking out runways and so on.

But its their approach to the targets that impressed me. I dont think anyone flew closer to the ground in high speeds then RAF tornado-pilots and deliverd their payload on the spot.

IAF are also very good, but their targets are sitting ducks. But then SWAF has no targets at all, last time the Swedish airforce were involved in combat were in the 50´s in Congo, where four J29 took out their entire airforce.

So the problem remains despite where your heart belongs.  The only way to find out  would be to let them all have a "Go" at each other in a friendly competion. A World Championship in aircombat.  :D

Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Webmaster on May 18, 2005, 11:30:45 AM
Ok, this is probably a stupid poll anyway, but here are my comments.

PAF has a great air force if it was 1980 today. They still lack a BVR capability. They don't have force multipliers like tankers and AWACS and lack intel platforms. Their new fighter will be the JF-17, which is an equivalent of the F-16 at best.

IAF lacks AWACS as well, and those Flankers are great, but more need to enter service. They have operated the MiG-29 with R-73s that gave them an edge.

SwAF lacks tankers and transports, but of course they didn't need them until now.

RAF is getting better. Finally the Typhoon started to be delivered, giving them a air dominance fighter that it lacked for so many years. What made the RAF good in past years, was their ability to specialise in specific roles. The runway bombing of the Tornados is an example of this. But face it, if the RAF wouldn't be there, the USAF would have sorted it out from medium level with lots of bombs  :P

The USAF has got it all. AIM-9X now finally entering the inventory, as well as the F/A-22.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on May 18, 2005, 12:53:30 PM
It aint stupid, its just a tough subject.   :)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Webmaster on May 19, 2005, 01:40:50 PM
RecceJet, that's up to you. How do you want to compare these air forces?  ;) I'm not sure what the criteria of the creator of the poll are? Maybe number of aircraft in relation to the budget?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: bazooka on May 19, 2005, 08:05:21 PM
 I would have to say the United States Air Force is at the best. The US spends vast amounts of money on defense alone, and last time I checked the US spends more money on defense than any other nation. I could be wrong, if I am someone please correct me.                                             
          Furthermore, the USAF has technology on its side. Yes, other nations may have their "state-of-the-art" aircraft, but with the introduction of the F-22, new versions of the AIM-9, and now experimental UCAVs, the USAF has a lot to offer. True, the RAF has some amazing Tornado pilots, but like someone mentioned, the USAF would have come up with something to take care of the job. Not to say that the Tornado pilots' skills were not valuable and appreciated.
           Another reason for my vote to the USAF, is that they have a variety of aircraft, weapons, and tools to help in accomplishing their mission. The USAF has spy sats, AWACs, a plethora of "smart bombs", tankers, UAVs, and some of the best recon, fighter, and bomber planes around.
           Also, the USAF pilots are among the best trained in the world. Exercises such as Red Flag help sharpen their skills, and Adversary squadrons help add to the training envrionment.
           As for experience, I would say USAF pilots would come in behind Israeli pilots. As for numbers of planes and   personnel, I do not know.
           And last of all, the USAF has a variety of companies to build its aircraft. Some of the leading aircraft producing companies, with a notable amount of experience, include Boeing ,Lockheed Martin, and McDonald Douglas. USAF planes are developed, tested, and made in the US.
           In the end though, I think all the air forces contribute something special only to them. What really matters is that when a crisis comes, all the air forces mentioned above, are more than capable of defending their countries. I hope I didn't step on anyones' toes. I did not write this reply to invoke any hard feelings. I have been in conversations before where feelings were hurt and friendships broken. When people talk about whose stuff is better, nationalism plays a part in ones belief. But again in the end all the air forces have their strengths and weaknesses.         
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Joopey on May 20, 2005, 02:20:48 AM
I largely agree with Bazooka. But when you’re the best for a while, you might get sloppy and get your ass kicked by the Indian Air Force (Or event the Dutch. About ten years ago the USNAVY F-14’s were slaughtered by pre-MLU F-16’s) ;D
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on May 20, 2005, 07:22:39 AM
Guys!!

It dosent matter how good jets/weapons an airforce have. It all comes down to the pilot in the end, he has to make the decisions. His mental and physical strength is what really counts.

Any one of us could "fly" an Gripen or Eurofighter but an ace/veteran pilot would take us out in a  old  F-104.

To figure out wich airforce is best , you have to see the big picture.  All airforces have the weapons, countermeasures and high tech jets so it all comes down to pilot skill now, just like in the early years of aviation.  :)

Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Joopey on May 20, 2005, 01:37:15 PM
Per capita it could be argued that a massive defence force such as the one in the US is not as smart or as capable and flexible as one of a smaller country.

But will crush the small one anyway, because they can afford to have a much lower killratio...
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: elias_b on May 20, 2005, 04:09:25 PM
I voted for the USA. The AirForce, Navy and MarineCorps together are the strongest represents of Air Power in the world. The US technology is the most advanced, their training is one of the best and they simply have a huge number of modern aircraft available. No other Air Force can win against the USA in an air battle.
But if Israel would be in the list, I'd vote for them. It's impossible for an 6 Million country to have an Air Force as massive as the USAF. But if we compare the AirForce to the Size (geographical, economical and demographical), than Israel would have the best AF(in my opinion). The IDF/AF has largely a similar equipment as the USA. Technologically advanced, extremly well trained and very experienced.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Air Marshal on June 03, 2005, 07:45:26 AM
It aint stupid, its just a tough subject.   :)

 Dont worry dear ...............   ::)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on June 03, 2005, 08:21:06 AM
Dont worry dear ............... ::)

Im not worried, was just afraid that you might start crying. There is nothing worse then a grown man crying...  ;)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Joopey on June 07, 2005, 12:45:16 AM
Im not worried, was just afraid that you might start crying. There is nothing worse then a grown man crying... ;)

You don't know my girlfriend... :-\
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on June 07, 2005, 07:13:24 AM
Im not worried, was just afraid that you might start crying. There is nothing worse then a grown man crying... ;)

I guess thats still better then waking up in the morning being singel, rain falls, no hot water and have to go to work....I cry every morning.  :'(
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Air Marshal on June 13, 2005, 04:37:41 PM
define "best" in this context  :-\
Just post answer, not see the point .........
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Air Marshal on June 13, 2005, 04:43:06 PM
Im not worried, was just afraid that you might start crying. There is nothing worse then a grown man crying...  ;)
From ur message i think u feel some tension and worried......... Just smile. Thats would u think....  :)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Air Marshal on June 18, 2005, 12:30:35 AM
From the history , PAF is better than IAF.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Air Marshal on June 18, 2005, 03:28:06 PM
It aint stupid, its just a tough subject.   :)
Yes stupid subject because Viggen is not bo added............  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Air Marshal on June 19, 2005, 01:20:37 PM
The swedisch airforce has absolute an beautifull airforce. ;D
But.............

I will go for the USA airforce and navy.
They have the latest and the best equipment. And the F-14 Tomcat......... ;)
And can overpower and overrun any airforce in this period of time in the world.

So in my humble opinion, is the USA the best airforce, from the list above.

Best Regards, Ramon.
Dear tell me what's the reason of USAF is the best....... ???
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Berkut on June 25, 2005, 07:53:03 PM
Because you waste billions  ???
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: elias_b on June 26, 2005, 11:44:02 AM
Scorpion already gave you the answer:
"latest and best equipement", wich means that the F/A-22A, the F-15C/D, the F-16C/D, the F/A-18E/F and the F-35A/B/C have a very good performance. And F/A-22A, F/A-18E/F and F-35 are clearly the latest developments, do you agree, AirMarshal?
"overpower" is the best reason, why the US have the best airforce (Airforce, Navy and USMC combined): They simply have quite a lot of good fighters (more than any other country). You can take Singapore as an example. They have a very good equipement (approx. 60 F-16C/D and 40-50 F-5S). That's a very good airforce for a county of that size and a good airforce for this region, but it can't compete with the USAF(because of it's size).
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Goose on June 29, 2005, 01:36:45 AM
Wow looks like we got a lot of USAF fans here!!!! quite a fight going on, Sure the USAF is the big bad technology warrior around the block which has billions to spend. That sure does count for a lot.

Funny how they were that way back in 1965 - 1975 and had their gonads handed to them in a sack by the we bitty , crippled orphan of a North Vietnamese Air Force.


I voted RAF since WW2 proved that the country which owns the air force has what it takes to save their assets.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Joopey on July 05, 2005, 08:14:48 PM
Although I’m not a big fan of the Usaf myself, I have to disagree with you on one point.

The Usaf ‘had their gonads handed to them in a sack’ ( ;D) because a lot of politicians in Washington had double agendas. If the Air Force had had full authorisation to use all means possible, the outcome definitely would have been different. For instance, the Air Force had to begin at the bottom of their ‘priority-target-list’, in stead of starting with the most threatening targets (including sam-sites!). When they did have the opportunity to use full capacity, the Linebacker II bombing campaigns of 1972 for instance, they came ‘dangerously’ close to defeating their opponent.

Once again, it was the politicians who ordered the cancellation of these operations.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Goose on July 05, 2005, 11:32:53 PM
This I know, the point I'm trying to make is that the topic must be taken in a holistic view. The USAF was in a bit of a state in the beginning of the war, for instance doctrine and pilot training was totally of base (namely F-4 with no gun). Secondly the war was fought badly due to politicians thus hampering the Air Forces.

It has to be looked at holistically, it you don't you can't plan for every eventuality. As Col. Warden pointed out in his book and during assisting in planning "Desert Storm" you have to analyse the enemy and plan accordingly, hence the NVAF was better than the USAF cause they knew what to do to beat them. I'm not just talking strategic terms here, take for instance the hit and run tactics from the six O'clock position of an armada enroute to a target.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Joopey on July 06, 2005, 01:04:08 PM
Agreed, although I believe that the ‘strength’ of the NVAF was born out of budget- and technological problems and not so much out of doctrine  ;)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: dreamer on August 10, 2005, 06:33:25 PM
The US has a great aiforce but so does Europe, then again the Russians have a great airforce also so I'm picking them.  Each of the above countries have VERY unique planes.such as

US=F-16 Fighting Falcon
Europe=Eurofighter Typhoon
Russia=SU-37 Terminator

**Please correct me if I am wrong**
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Webmaster on August 11, 2005, 02:49:32 PM
Russia lost their single Su-37 long time ago, it was never operational. You might want to say Su-35 instead, although that's only in service in limited numbers. So I would say for the near future:

US= F/A-22, JSF
Europe= Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen
Russia= Su-27 upgrades, Su-30, Su-35

OR if looking at the operational types

US = F-15, F-16, F/A-18
Europe = Tornado, F-16, Mirage 2000, Gripen
Russia = MiG-29, Su-27, Su-33

Basically rules out Europe at the moment, it is far from a combined air force anyway, so no point to compare entire Europe with the US or Russia. And if looking per country none of them match up to the US in strength. But that doesn't matter as long each can support their own means and coalition/allied requirements and received enough training to do so with the available means.

When looking at Russia, they are far behind with fleet upgrades compared to the US. One US squadron does probably more training flying than one entire Russian airbase...

Another great power is China, which is fastly modernising its fleets with new types, building up its inventory. The large number of aircraft makes it strong in a traditional air battle, but it doesn't make it good.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Air Marshal on August 12, 2005, 04:43:41 PM
The US has a great aiforce but so does Europe, then again the Russians have a great airforce also so I'm picking them.  Each of the above countries have VERY unique planes.such as

US=F-16 Fighting Falcon
Europe=Eurofighter Typhoon
Russia=SU-37 Terminator

**Please correct me if I am wrong**

As u say 'US has a great aiforce' but PAF also Second To None
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: dreamer on August 14, 2005, 09:12:05 PM
my apologies
USAF,RAF,PAF, and the Rusian AF all have great Air Forces however I refuse to comment on which one is best.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: innocentsoul on August 20, 2005, 10:31:08 PM
PAKISTAN AIRFORCE IS BEST OF ALL THAT'S Y IT IS SECOND TO NONE.
"LIFE FAVORS THOSE WHO DARE WHO ARE BARELY RARE YET BELEIVE AND PLAY WITH CONVECTION AND OUTCLASS THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE BORN TO WIN THE HEARTS FOREVER"
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Webmaster on August 22, 2005, 01:04:48 AM
Okay another PAF fan, no problem with that, but I wish you guys could drop the 'Second to none' thing, which is clearly just a popular term, just like "Air Power Team Power" for the RNLAF...and well I guess we can think of some more here. The PAF is not 'second to none' if you look at it from an overall perspective, let's be honest about that. Technology wise the PAF is second to a lot of nations. Don't forget the PAF is still not Beyond-Visual-Range capable, no AWACS, no Tankers...let's face it, you can't make up for these with just "better human factors and dogfight tactics".

You know, there is nothing wrong with preferring a certain air force, for patriotic reasons or not. But it doesn't mean it can be called the best of all.  ;D 8)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on August 22, 2005, 08:02:15 AM
Very true by our dear webmaster. I love the Swedish airforce more then any other. But i am also realistic, being the best involves so many aspects of technologi and human factors that its almost impossible to know wich airforce is really the best. And for you patriotic fans out there i just want to say..."Come back down to earth and have a fun by discussing this issues as adults".  8)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Air Marshal on August 22, 2005, 02:55:41 PM
Viggen tell me what thing makes Swedish AF Best  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on August 22, 2005, 02:59:38 PM
Im not saying it is the best, just one of the better ones. But the Swedish airbases have great groundefence against saboteurs and terrorism. Swedish airforce rangers rules!!  ;D
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Battlemike on September 17, 2005, 12:55:17 AM
 ;D  While i'd love to do the "politically" correct thing- what are you guys smoking???!!!! The US Airforce is head and tails above almost every world fighting force- The Swedes? okay the Grippen is a hot Aircraft, but why do they buy f-16 Cs? Maybe becuase the F-16 can do all the things that "so-called "air superiority fighter can do, and still bomb ground targets.Pakistanis? They've got f-16s too but are scared as crap to engage that Indian IDF fighter ( which is the equivalent of a  cheap casio watch compared to a rolex) Besides WHAT war has the Swedes fought to prove themselves?- US has far more ACTIVE and former JET FIGHTER ACES,i.e. better training and experience, plus even US RESERVE pilots could match or best the Best that europe and Asia  have to offer (Or did any of you forget that 45% of the flying forces for the USAF were reserves flying OLDER F-16 and F-15 variants???didn't see any Hot Mig 29s  or the SU27s of the Iraqis do anything but turn themselves over to Iran!) Face it, if You want to talk Superior air forces, try this :
1) USAF (period)
2) RAF ( Toranado fighter-bomber jocks have GUTS and those pesky little Harrier Jocks are psychos and will go up against even mach 2 adversaries! When the RAF gets the new Typhoon,they'll give the USAF a run for the bank!)
3) IDF -Isrealis are "alley fighters"-they have PROVEN the deadliness of the F-15 and F-16 time and time again (but they fly lighter ,stripped down versions of their US counterparts) plus be wary of their mixed bag use of older F-4 phantoms,mirage fighters and KFIRS,etc.

4)TIE- France and Germany- France got the Bosnia and Desert storm experience, they have good indigenous fighters( Dassault)
    and the Germans? BEST AGGRESSOR pilots in the WEST-Limited resources and finance hamper them, But Germany flies Tornados,f-16s, older F-4s(very well too,even as interceptors still!) and the hot Mig 29 ,which in my book is a threat to any F/A-18 & F-16 jock over any other euro  "bucket")

5) Canada-YES CANADA!!! Tradition,boyo'! The Canucks fly US metal-F-16s and F/A -18s ( and they also train with the USAF at "red Flag" ace factory and "Top Gun"-believe the HYPE,TOP GUN PRODUCED Randy "DUKE" Cunningham- (3) Mig -17s at close range and (3) Mig 21s!!!)

6) LASTLY-Russia- The former Big "red" fell down and went splat!! Budget restraints mean that the Russkies basically export hot fighters, but  have a tradition of making suprisingly robust goods and their pilots are near suicidal and resourceful in a fight!- the lastest Sukhoi and Migs can hang with Western "rides" ,but then it comes down to training and experience and in a short  "brush" war or political skirmish , France,Isreal or Germany could give'em a "BLACK" eye.

I'm sorry-just had to go there!! I'm originally from Canada (BC) but now live in the US (California) I've visited the former Miramar as well as other local military bases, been to the air shows and even have talked to U.S. Marine Aviators (basic mud movers with dumb bombs, but they can tangle in air to air too!)

Didn't mean to insult anyone 's national pride, but you have to face reality-experience coupled with quantity and quality win out ALL the time! The last true super powers -US And UK , have vast air fleets, can sustain more Battle losses in a slug fest and could out produce even a combined Euro/Asian aggressor force.sadly, I've seen that most here on this site are looking at the"dark yrs" of the USAF during their Vietnam conlfict- what you all are not taking into consideration is that the USAF  had their hands tied behind their back s with a don't shoot until fired upon  doctrine! In air to air battles- NVAF Mig 21s and 17s ran AWAY when confronted by  what was the USAFs/US NAVY's "best" fighter- the F-8 Crusader- the "last gunfighter"-Crusaders had a higher  kill to loss ratio (7:1) than the non- gun F-4s early in the war.US strategy was focussed on BOMBING ,not air to ari combat, so the "crippled orphan" airforce of NVAF had an open hand to hit first and run  away- When the US did show up to fight, NVAF "ran"  like every other bully country runs 2day...just my 2bits ,Boyo's.............
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Webmaster on September 17, 2005, 01:38:27 AM
 ;D ;D ;D Welcome  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Battlemike on September 17, 2005, 03:15:56 AM
Lastly- How can anyone place PAF and IAF in the same category as USAF,RAF, and the Royal Swede Airforce? PAF anf IAF would get MAULED by the relatively small Swedes( who are mainly into the peaceful Defence end of the fighter business,i.e. "if you must insist on messing with us" type of combat!) ::).I believe that Countries build or buy according to their needs, and the IAF buys on ego and image rather than need.............
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on September 17, 2005, 02:06:06 PM
You have a point Battlemike. Of course US has the biggest and best air force today, but however you twist and turn it. There is something missing.  Most of the answers are from a personal/patriotic point of view.

Like me, im from Sweden. Im glad that we never bought F16´s of F18´s. A small country like ours have not seen a major war for over 400 years. We survived the cold war, stayed neutral and built up a strong air force. Always followed our own ways.  :)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: F/A-22 on September 17, 2005, 08:49:05 PM
My first post 8) Hej,Hei,Hello!
 I like the Swedish and USAF.
Im from Norway  ;)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: alyster on September 17, 2005, 10:18:12 PM
I think Sweeden would of had hard time staying neutral in the Cold War if they would of started to buying ally planes or soviet planes....anyway it's a nice AF, it can handel it's duty.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on September 18, 2005, 09:23:12 AM
Any small country would get mutilated by the Russian or US air force in case of an invasion. Nobody here is stupid enough to belive that they could win an airwar against any of those countries. But we all would put up a real fight for survival, even if we know the outcome.  :)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: TOPGUN4LIFE on October 22, 2005, 10:28:17 PM
I would say any Air Force with the F-15 in its crew because to date its never been shot down!
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: alyster on October 23, 2005, 12:15:49 AM
Well there' lots of planes no1 has ever shot down, but doesn't mean they'll be so caplbe to defend the airspace or attack.
And I wouldn't say any, coz few F-15 or no mather what plane in small numbers won't do big difrence in massive attack.
Altough, I like the Eagle also :)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Joopey on October 23, 2005, 12:23:38 AM
A small remark... The F-15 is not untouchable! Israeli F-15's were damaged in combat over Libanon... (read 'Fighters over Israel' by Lon Nordeen) Still a great aircraft, with a great reputation and a big asset to any air force
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Air Marshal on December 10, 2005, 04:15:56 PM
A small remark... The F-15 is not untouchable! Israeli F-15's were damaged in combat over Libanon... (read 'Fighters over Israel' by Lon Nordeen) Still a great aircraft, with a great reputation and a big asset to any air force
Yes not doubt that F-15 is better Aircraft specially for Air-to-Ground Firing. The dual-role F-15E Strike Eagle is basically a converted F-15B/D trainer for the ground-attack role. It has a total of 18 external hardpoints and is capable of carrying a wide range of guided or unguided air-ground weapons and up to eight Air-to-Air missiles. And is also capable of delevering nuclear weapons.

The F-15I, F-15K and F-15S are designations for the export versions of the F-15E for Israel, Korea and Saudi Arabie respectively. Licensed built F-15C/D aircraft by Japan for designated F-15J/DJ. Korea has recently ordered the Boeing F-15K while Sukhoi was offering the more agile Su-35 at a much lower price. The F-15K is more advanced than the original F-15E, it has better radar and improved systems and a helmet-mounted cueing system.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: RecceJet on December 12, 2005, 11:53:21 AM
Yes not doubt that F-15 is better Aircraft specially for Air-to-Ground Firing. The dual-role F-15E Strike Eagle is basically a converted F-15B/D trainer for the ground-attack role. It has a total of 18 external hardpoints and is capable of carrying a wide range of guided or unguided air-ground weapons and up to eight Air-to-Air missiles. And is also capable of delevering nuclear weapons.

The F-15I, F-15K and F-15S are designations for the export versions of the F-15E for Israel, Korea and Saudi Arabie respectively. Licensed built F-15C/D aircraft by Japan for designated F-15J/DJ. Korea has recently ordered the Boeing F-15K while Sukhoi was offering the more agile Su-35 at a much lower price. The F-15K is more advanced than the original F-15E, it has better radar and improved systems and a helmet-mounted cueing system.

Add to that list the F-15T that the Republic of Singapore Air Force is getting as a replacement for their A-4 Super Skyhawks.

one of many sources: http://www.siiaonline.org/news_highlights?wid=171&func=viewSubmission&sid=385
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Webmaster on December 12, 2005, 02:30:55 PM
Ah yes, considering our PAF fan copied all that info from the F-15 section on this website, I guess I need to update it.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: RecceJet on December 12, 2005, 03:25:40 PM
Ah yes, considering our PAF fan copied all that info from the F-15 section on this website, I guess I need to update it.
Touché ;)
Giving a source and an opinion is more valuable
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Prowler on January 25, 2006, 02:10:32 PM
I'd have to say the SAAF(South African) comes first in my books.

Given the arms embargos etc. against us from 1972 onward, we still managed to produce some of the best pilots in the world (in my own personal opinion).
Not having the technology on our side, our guys still maged to pull off a 4-4 draw in 2002 when a couple of USAF F-15's were put up against our guys (that were flying premitive Cheetah C's - a Variation/Upgrade version of the Mirage III, created by the  ATLAS company).

The SAAF have now aqcuired some Gripens and we hope to retain that 'edge' our Air Force has always maintained. (However, with qouta systems/affirmative Action in place, it sure is going to be a challenge). :-[
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Vämpi on May 15, 2006, 01:45:36 AM
The best Air Force? Swiss Air Force!!!!!   :-*

I think all Countrys have a advantage to your own territory, yes a U.S Air Force is more powerful  than others but its not so easy to fight on unknown ground
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: alyster on May 15, 2006, 02:30:21 PM
But it's not like you can hide in the woods like ground forces do  ;D
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: fizzog17 on May 31, 2006, 04:22:16 PM
well i say royal airforce :O) we got a good history, but most peeps will vote for there home county like me
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Webmaster on June 01, 2006, 01:55:38 AM
Hi welcome to the MILAVIA Forum. I like the RAF as well, nice fleet of specialised aircraft and well trained and experienced crews. I especially like it now with the Harriers and Tornado bombers upgraded and Typhoon entering service, while the Tornado F.3s still carry on fitted with AMRAAM and ASRAAM. It's a shame though that the Jaguars had to give way already...
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: aircop38 on June 27, 2006, 12:28:51 PM
Hi welcome to the MILAVIA Forum. I like the RAF as well, nice fleet of specialised aircraft and well trained and experienced crews. I especially like it now with the Harriers and Tornado bombers upgraded and Typhoon entering service, while the Tornado F.3s still carry on fitted with AMRAAM and ASRAAM. It's a shame though that the Jaguars had to give way already...

With the US and Russia out of the equation ,I'd go RAF also- with Germany and the Scandanavian countries  a close 2nd-the French 3rd( a combined Franco -British air force could knock off the Red chinese) and a German/scandanaivan combined force could take the Indians
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: aircop38 on June 27, 2006, 12:33:51 PM
Well, i voted. Im the one who put my vote on RAF since SWAF wasen´t available.  :-\

I see that many votes for USAF, but i dont think they really are the best. They have the tools but im still a bit skeptic about their ability overall. During Desert Storm, the tornado-pilots got the toughest assignments like taking out runways and so on.

But its their approach to the targets that impressed me. I dont think anyone flew closer to the ground in high speeds then RAF tornado-pilots and deliverd their payload on the spot.

 



The RAF tornado pilots got the airfield interdiction duty becuase that was what the tornado is best at, and what those brave brit pilots trained for as their NATO role( they also had a hi casualty rate compared to other allied forces in the Gulf)The brits and the US pilots are probably neck and neck in terms of training and skill,with the Germans,Swedes,Israelis right on their backs- it would come down to resource and power projection- and I'm sorry -the US takes it all..........
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: aircop38 on June 27, 2006, 12:41:12 PM
Wow looks like we got a lot of USAF fans here!!!! quite a fight going on, Sure the USAF is the big bad technology warrior around the block which has billions to spend. That sure does count for a lot.

Funny how they were that way back in 1965 - 1975 and had their gonads handed to them in a sack by the we bitty , crippled orphan of a North Vietnamese Air Force.


I voted RAF since WW2 proved that the country which owns the air force has what it takes to save their assets.

BAD CHOICE ,my man! The U.S. Airforce was held down like a chained dog in its own yard by the Johnson Administration ( Sec.McNamara picked the targets not the field commanders) had the field commanders had FREE WILL to attack ,like in WW2 or as evidenced by Operation Linebacker II, the vietnamese would have been knocked out of the air war in in' 65 to '66 campaigns.and as for the RAF in the battle of Britain? the germans didn't have on the ground intell- had they known how bad off the RAF was,they would have continued the Battle of Britain and WON,changing the whole history of the world ,and probably still around ruling europe!
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: sekiria on July 13, 2006, 01:52:21 PM
I dunno....its a good question.
Well, in my opinion, the RAF is the best.
In terms of combat experience, you gotta pick either the USAAF or the RAF. (just opinion, am always open to new insights...so please update me whenever you wish)

I think its the RAF, thanks to their new Eurotyphoon fighters....I love that plane....
and since the USAAF still hasn't replaced their airfleet of F-16s and F-15s with the new F-22 raptor, (i heard that they are actually going to adopt a cheaper version of the F-22 called Y-22 or something (da hell...))
anyways, since the Eurotyphoon is currently one of the newest fighters in the world, and since France, Germany and Spain isn't included in the list....I go with the RAF. Its just in terms of technicality....there are probably a lot of better airforces in the world, based on training and pilot capabilities... but ill just go with the RAF....
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Jessie1987 on August 14, 2006, 05:09:41 PM
While i'd love to do the "politically" correct thing- what are you guys smoking???!!!! The US Airforce is head and tails above almost every world fighting force- The Swedes? okay the Grippen is a hot Aircraft, but why do they buy f-16 Cs? Maybe becuase the F-16 can do all the things that "so-called "air superiority fighter can do, and still bomb ground targets.Pakistanis? They've got f-16s too but are scared as crap to engage that Indian IDF fighter ( which is the equivalent of a  cheap casio watch compared to a rolex) Besides WHAT war has the Swedes fought to prove themselves?- US has far more ACTIVE and former JET FIGHTER ACES,i.e. better training and experience, plus even US RESERVE pilots could match or best the Best that europe and Asia  have to offer (Or did any of you forget that 45% of the flying forces for the USAF were reserves flying OLDER F-16 and F-15 variants???didn't see any Hot Mig 29s  or the SU27s of the Iraqis do anything but turn themselves over to Iran!) Face it, if You want to talk Superior air forces, try this :
1) USAF (period)
2) RAF ( Toranado fighter-bomber jocks have GUTS and those pesky little Harrier Jocks are psychos and will go up against even mach 2 adversaries! When the RAF gets the new Typhoon,they'll give the USAF a run for the bank!)
3) IDF -Isrealis are "alley fighters"-they have PROVEN the deadliness of the F-15 and F-16 time and time again (but they fly lighter ,stripped down versions of their US counterparts) plus be wary of their mixed bag use of older F-4 phantoms,mirage fighters and KFIRS,etc.

4)TIE- France and Germany- France got the Bosnia and Desert storm experience, they have good indigenous fighters( Dassault)
    and the Germans? BEST AGGRESSOR pilots in the WEST-Limited resources and finance hamper them, But Germany flies Tornados,f-16s, older F-4s(very well too,even as interceptors still!) and the hot Mig 29 ,which in my book is a threat to any F/A-18 & F-16 jock over any other euro  "bucket")

5) Canada-YES CANADA!!! Tradition,boyo'! The Canucks fly US metal-F-16s and F/A -18s ( and they also train with the USAF at "red Flag" ace factory and "Top Gun"-believe the HYPE,TOP GUN PRODUCED Randy "DUKE" Cunningham- (3) Mig -17s at close range and (3) Mig 21s!!!)

6) LASTLY-Russia- The former Big "red" fell down and went splat!! Budget restraints mean that the Russkies basically export hot fighters, but  have a tradition of making suprisingly robust goods and their pilots are near suicidal and resourceful in a fight!- the lastest Sukhoi and Migs can hang with Western "rides" ,but then it comes down to training and experience and in a short  "brush" war or political skirmish , France,Isreal or Germany could give'em a "BLACK" eye.

I'm sorry-just had to go there!! I'm originally from Canada (BC) but now live in the US (California) I've visited the former Miramar as well as other local military bases, been to the air shows and even have talked to U.S. Marine Aviators (basic mud movers with dumb bombs, but they can tangle in air to air too!)

Didn't mean to insult anyone 's national pride, but you have to face reality-experience coupled with quantity and quality win out ALL the time! The last true super powers -US And UK , have vast air fleets, can sustain more Battle losses in a slug fest and could out produce even a combined Euro/Asian aggressor force.sadly, I've seen that most here on this site are looking at the"dark yrs" of the USAF during their Vietnam conlfict- what you all are not taking into consideration is that the USAF  had their hands tied behind their back s with a don't shoot until fired upon  doctrine! In air to air battles- NVAF Mig 21s and 17s ran AWAY when confronted by  what was the USAFs/US NAVY's "best" fighter- the F-8 Crusader- the "last gunfighter"-Crusaders had a higher  kill to loss ratio (7:1) than the non- gun F-4s early in the war.US strategy was focussed on BOMBING ,not air to ari combat, so the "crippled orphan" airforce of NVAF had an open hand to hit first and run  away- When the US did show up to fight, NVAF "ran"  like every other bully country runs 2day...just my 2bits ,Boyo's.............
 
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Webmaster on August 15, 2006, 04:55:31 PM
Sure, USAF is the best. But maybe your list and arguments would differ a bit if you straighten out and update your F-16 operators as well as others.

Sweden doesn't operate F-16s (that would be Norway or Denmark)
Germany doesn't operate F-16s (those are USAFE ones stationed in Germany)
Canada doesn't operate F-16s (dunno why you think that, maybe because of Goosebay or Maple Flag...those are probably USAF fighters, or maybe even Dutch ones  :P)

Germany "sold" their MiG-29s to Poland for the symbolic price of 1 EUR.

The IDF have already replaced their Mirages and most probably also most Kfirs, also the Phantoms are retired.

Iraq never had Su-27s, those were Su-25 (you know the CAS/attack aircraft) that fled to Iran.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on August 16, 2006, 05:57:51 PM
He he!! Sweden operating F16´s, that was a good one.. ;D Both Denmark and Norway are operating the F16,´s.

The Gripen is a fourth generation fighter, it has not been tested in actual real combat. I belive thats the reason why many choose the F16 over Gripen, but now with Hungarians, The Chez and South Africans operating the Gripen it will probably take over from the F16´s (Speculation). Mark my words, you heard it here first.  ;)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Webmaster on September 03, 2006, 04:29:55 PM
Despite all the talk about the Super Hornet, I think Bulgaria will also go for the Gripen if not F-16.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: alyster on September 07, 2006, 03:43:37 PM
How long is Bulgaria going to keep their MiGs?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Cobra2 on September 10, 2006, 08:18:46 PM
USAF is best...weve got the best fighter, bomber,  fighter/bomber, multi-role etc. planes.
     And our airforce has very good training and very good pilots. And our stealth capability realy compliments our airforce.
       I do not want to start any trouble but thats what i think and it looks like alot of other think so also.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Webmaster on September 10, 2006, 08:37:43 PM
Welcome Cobra2!

Maybe we have to look at it from a value-for-money perspective, or maybe training-only, you know like one thing at a time. Because otherwise, the US will always be on top... but I mean 'dûh' look at their military budget! :o
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on September 17, 2006, 04:37:38 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble but the Pakistani Air Force is NOT the best air force in the world.  They'd still be flying biplanes if the US hadn't sold them jets. 
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Cobra2 on September 17, 2006, 05:51:27 AM
Valiant, you are so true. If the Pakistani airforce went up against the U.S., Britain, Israel, and other airforces they would all be shot down in a single day. look at what the U.S. did to Sadams planes in the first gulf  ;) it only took like 15 minutes after our planes went out to shoot down there airforce...and i doubt that Pakistan has a better one then them. Sorry but its the truth.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Webmaster on September 17, 2006, 01:27:25 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble but the Pakistani Air Force is NOT the best air force in the world.  They'd still be flying biplanes if the US hadn't sold them jets. 

No, of course it isn't, but you are being a bit harsh. Pakistan flies and has flown more Chinese types in recent years than the US jets. And anyway, I think the US wanted every country to have their jets in the early days, we want you on our side, here have some jets, because otherwise they would have picked the Soviet side and gotten MiGs and Tupolev bombers.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on September 17, 2006, 03:16:36 PM
The first Iraqi jet that was shoot down, was made by a Saudi pilot in an F15 Eagle. Then there was not much more air to air combat since Iraq grounded and hid their jets. So its true that US had air-domination, but im still wondering how it would of gone if Iraq had better pilots and choose to take on the US fighters.  :)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Cobra2 on September 17, 2006, 05:00:10 PM
The first Iraqi jet that was shoot down, was made by a Saudi pilot in an F15 Eagle. Then there was not much more air to air combat since Iraq grounded and hid their jets. So its true that US had air-domination, but im still wondering how it would of gone if Iraq had better pilots and choose to take on the US fighters.  :)

 :P Are you actually serius??? they would go down with more expensive planes is all...like if the U.S. took on...uh..say France, it wouldnt matter really...it would just take a little time to get them all...our F-15s have tons of kills with no losses  ;)
Iraq Af would have got shotdown no matter what.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on September 18, 2006, 12:16:29 PM
Im starting to get bored about reading politics on a aviationsite. There is other websites where you can discuss your hate and other dislikes for countries.  This need to stop now!!!  >:(
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on September 18, 2006, 01:40:43 PM
deleted fraction of post

You're right, this isn't a political venue, I don't intend to make it so because I do love military jets.  I take it that you like the JS-37 Viggen?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on September 19, 2006, 01:57:18 AM
I know where all this is coming from. Its ok to dislike other countries, but   two persons here  have babbling about it for days now.  I could get into it myself, but i just dont find MILAVIA to be the appropiate place for it.  I wont delete any of these posts, its up to our webmaster to decide. I just wanted to make my oppinion heard about this ongoing topic. (Im Swedish so i stay neutral).

Since the two guys here get along so well, why cant you two come up with a new poll we all can take. (Aviation-related).  ::)

PS.
I do like the JA37 Viggen and according to your late ex President Reagan, Sweden is the only country and JA37 Viggen who have been able to get a radarlock and fire an air to air missile on the sweet Blackbird. There is a framed document on the wall at the old airbase where i did my "tour of duty". Signed by President Reagan.  :)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on September 19, 2006, 04:01:18 AM
Mr. Viggen, not to kiss your butt or anything, I admire the Swedes; I've always particularly liked the Viggen and it's too bad your country is retiring them.  However, I really love the new Gripen, and if you've read one of my first posts - I've called the plane beautiful and graceful yet powerful.  As a matter of fact, I have a model of the Gripen I haven't built yet - it's made by Revell and it's a big model - 1/32 scale size.  It's good the Viggen got a lock on the Blackbird - it shows the competency of your country's air force.  I do admire the Swedish Air Force, frankly, I think the US should buy the Gripen to enhance our air force.  I've always believed in having numbers mixed with technology. 
Neutrality is fine - most of the times.  But sometimes neutrality is "turning the other way" when other countries might need assistance.  Yes, unfortunately the US government pokes their nose in everyone's business.  I'm talking about moderation.  Admittingly, I dislike France and I do believe they are extremely arrogant and ungrateful - but that's not my point.  My point has always been this- allies need to stick together and support one another.  Yes allies can disagree on certain topics, but when it comes down to the wire, we're all gonna need each other when times get REAL BAD AND UGLY.
That's my point - sticking together, supporting one another - and I hope Sweden will be there when things do get bad and ugly - especially for the Western Hemishpere - because that time will come and a new power will arise from the East- the Far East. 
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on September 19, 2006, 11:59:31 AM
He he, I think you missunderstood me, but i do agree with you on the neutrality.  :)

Yes, Gripen is a much better plane then Viggen. But i grew up with the Viggen-era so it was though to see them retire. What i would love to see is Gripen invited to your Red Flag exercise. I know its only for your allies, but recently the Gripen and crew   patricipade in "Cooperative Cope Thunder 2006" up in Alaska, so maybe there is hope.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Cobra2 on September 19, 2006, 10:57:30 PM
I like the SA-35 Draken, the SA-37 Viggen, and the Gripen also :) especially the Viggen...and Viggen (not the plane, I mean you  :D)
I saw in my figther plane book and i saw all that the Viggen could carry for one sortie  :o quite a bit...Im not sure of any other planes that can carry that much but I havnt seen there load haha...but it looks like a lot.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on September 20, 2006, 02:36:59 AM
I think i know wich picture you seen of the Viggen with its ordonance. But the pic lies, it cant carry all that weaponary at the same time. Ex: JA37 can carry 2 sidwinder, 2 skyflash, 1 external fueltank + a couple of hundred 30mm rounds.

Viggen designations:

AJ37 = Attack version.
JA37 = Fighter/Interceptor ver.

SK37 = Training ver.

SK37E = Electonicwarfare ver.
SH37 = Radarrecon ver. (Over sea).
SF37 = Photorecon ver.

AJS37/ AJSH37/ AJSF37/ = AJ37 converted into multirole versions.

PS. Im sorry Niels that i have still not finished the Viggen section.  :-[
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Cobra2 on September 20, 2006, 03:42:25 AM
Oh, its was in my fighter plane book...Ill describe the picture: it was showing a Viggen from the front with all its ordnance.

Maybe the book ment what it can carry altogether??  :-\
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on September 20, 2006, 12:58:00 PM
Yupp, it probably means that. The armament of Viggen is prettty bad compared to other fighters, but then it´s never supposed to engage in close dogfights.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on September 24, 2006, 02:13:54 PM
I've been reading some of the older posts and I have to say, I found a couple of them quite amusing - like a couple who've said Pakistan has the best air force.  Yes, I know, I mentioned something about Pakistan already but I'd have to say, there is ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, NO WAY, TIL PIGS FLY, does Pakistan have the best air force in the world.
Hypothetically, if there was a war between the US and Pakistan and a squadron of F-22s, F-15s and F-16s were approaching the Pakistani Air Force (fllying American hardware, of course) , I'd feel really bad that we'd have to shoot down ALL of our own planes flown by the PAF. 
Like someone else here said, you have to look at the big picture.  China is the one to watch.  They are modernizing their entire air fleet.  Numbers don't make it all, but it sure helps.  Russia lacks the finances, why else are they selling their Mig 29s and Su-27s to everyone else?  For most of the European nations, it's about economics -what they can afford to have.  South Africa - is NOT the best in the world, PERIOD.  They have limited resources.  ISRAEL deserves to be on this list - they do have some of the VERY BEST dogfighters in the world - they have to - they're surrounded by nations who want to destroy them - GO ISRAEL!!!
Overall, the United States has the best airforce - 1. the US has the resources - the planes and  the pilots 2.  the latest, most lethal equipment - F-22s and F-35s, upgrades for current fighters, most transport planes, early warning radar planes, etc. 3. most training available to pilots 4. financial resources and fundings 5. the cooperation and combined efforts of 2 other air forces - the Navy and Marines and to some extent the US Army (AH-64 Apaches and other types of helis). 
It's all these combined resources that make the US Air Force the best in the world.     
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on September 24, 2006, 04:08:50 PM
Well, those persons are patriotic. I like to think of the Swedish air force as the best one. I said it before and im going to say it again...Everybody has the right to be proud of their own airforce without someone else criticising his/hers belives.  :)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Cobra2 on September 24, 2006, 07:01:18 PM
And Viggen, I respect you for that..Valiant or I am NOT criticising other poeples airforces...but it really is the truth..it just is...and i think Sweden should be on the best airforce list  :) but it is true that America is ontop.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: alyster on September 24, 2006, 07:48:23 PM
Yup, cause of one singel reason: your military budget is 500+ billion, while Germany spends 35billion and UK spends 42(?)billion dollars.  And Sweden spends only 5,5billion yet it has such a airforce.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Cobra2 on September 24, 2006, 10:43:06 PM
Alyster, first of all, you have no idea how much we spend. second, we have the money to spend and you dont. Third, we need to stay ontop and you dont...because you guys dont go around helping ungrateful countries and we do...without our extraordinary military and will to do whats right this world would be a mess even worse than it is today because of countries trying to steal freedom and be a world power like us...BUT IN A BAD, BAD WAY...NOT A GOOD WAY LIKE US. And Im not just saying that. ITS THE COMPLETE TRUTH.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Cobra2 on September 25, 2006, 12:03:34 AM
Yeah, you better remove it...we probably liberated the country your in 1 time or another...it doesnt even have to be by a war...it could be by our special forces in a matter of 2 hours. so dont even talk about us...and I dont disagree to you about worrying about our own country...but you will...your country will be way bent out of shape...and i can name many wars that we have helped many poeple...the only reason the US goes on the offensive is because weve been attacked or another country needs liberating. PERIOD.

   ****************~~Im not just picking on your country or any other but you guys started it...you know what your country is like...it doesnt have to be bad but we would win a war - NO DOUBT...and you all know it so stop!~~*******************
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on September 25, 2006, 01:03:01 AM
I say the US Air Force has the best in the world because of all the resources available to them.  For someone to say they have the best air force YET rely on another country for their hardware because they don't have their own manufacturing ability to produce their own planes, does not make them the best air force. 

And to MR. ALYSTER, yes, we do spend a lot on our military but not like the former Soviet Union where just about every available financial funding went to the military - why do you think their economy is so bad?  But also know this, even if we do spend a lot on our military,  most provided by taxpayers, the US government, as much as I disagree with many issues they need to address, does send out financial and other aids to other countries.  We're not asking you to applaud us, just acknowledge it.  We don't have the best form of government, but who does?  You may not like the US or even Americans, but also remember, AMERICA IS MADE OF MANY NATIONALITIES, COLOR AND CULTURE.  ABOUT THE ONLY TRUE AMERICANS ARE THE NATIVE INDIANS.

With that said, the US has the best air force.   BUT I'm also happy our allies,  if they're not ashamed of being called that,  have very capable air forces - the Royal Air Force, for one,  now being equipped with the Typhoon, would make any enemy think twice about tangling with them. 
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 14, 2006, 04:39:45 AM
the best airforce in the world would be one that has great equiptment, and one that also doesnt take crap from politians- kinda like the IAF, for an air force to function, it needs to be able to skip all that political mumbo jumbo!
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on October 14, 2006, 04:41:10 AM
IAF - you mean the Israeli Air Force and not Indian Air Force, correct?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 14, 2006, 04:56:11 AM
IAF-Israel

the designation for india is different isnt it?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on October 14, 2006, 05:03:17 AM
Not sure, but I was hoping you would say Israeli because they SURE are damn good pilots - I'm glad they're on our side.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 14, 2006, 05:07:52 AM
yea, i would not want to be fighting against the Israelis.. they dont stuff around- Shoot First, ask Questions Later

like that thing they did to the Iraqi Nuke Reactor in the 80's

flew into another country and blew it up!  8)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on October 14, 2006, 05:13:01 AM
Hey Gripen, I read somewhere that your country was looking to replace your F-18s with variants of the Su-27 Flankers?  Is that true because that would be awesome! 

I'm not a big fan of the F-18   - it's too underpowered  - it needs the engines from the Eurofighter Typhoon.   That would be great  - Australia would be the first Western

nation to fly the Flanker,  a plane I do admire.  Your country should replace the F-18s - they're horrible.  And now the US came out with the Super Hornet - blah!  What a

waste of an aircraft - the F-14 Tomcat was a much better fighter  -  more powerful, more payload, better range, better maneuverability,  better everything. 
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 14, 2006, 05:15:20 AM
Australia isnt getting Flankers :'(, because we are in the stupid JSF program, though i think we should get flankers and use them, or do what the Russian Knights have done and use them as acrobatic planes- i would love to see the Cobra thing :D
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on October 14, 2006, 05:16:44 AM
you're not so hot on the JSF program, how come?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 14, 2006, 05:19:47 AM
the whole program is stupid- i think the whole stealth principal is

there is no true stealth attack plane (the U2 could be considered a stealth, so is the Blackbird, but they couldnt blow stuff up)

the most stealthy plane normally (F-22 and JSF dont because they are stealth until they open their bomb bay doors) would have to be a Gripen or Rafale, with the Eurofighter close behind
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 14, 2006, 05:28:08 AM
check out the Stealth: Why it dosent work topic in Modern Military Aircraft
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on October 14, 2006, 05:29:26 AM
you're right about the F-22 and F-35 not being stealthy once the weapons bay doors open up, but thats just split second because once those doors close, they can run and hide again to a different location.    I wouldn't call the other three fighters stealthy at all,  what I can say about the Gripen, Typhoon and Rafale is they were built for super maneuverability.  They may have some angles that reduce their radar cross section by a little, but not like the F-22 and F-35, both of which do have stealth quality.  
But also remember that both aircraft are built with external wing hardpoints, if the need arises where carrying more weapons to a target is more important than stealth.  I know the F-35 hasn't proven itself,  but give it a chance - this is what you're getting -
A supersonic vertical, short take off fighter/bomber capable of supermaneuverabiltiy, armed w/an internal 27mm Mauser cannon and the HIGHEST thrust engine available to any fighter - rated at 40,000 lbs of thrust.  That's more than the F-18C Hornet's 2 engines combined.  I would put my money on an F-35 over an F-18 in a dogfight any day of the week.  
I don't know if it was you who said it, but it's really the politics of our countries that dictate what they're buying for the defense.  Too bad.  
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 14, 2006, 05:31:53 AM
if i was the boss of my military, i wouldnt buy the JSF
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on October 14, 2006, 05:34:29 AM
what would you buy - the F-15 Eagle, Su-27 Flanker, JAS-39 Gripen, EF2000 Typhoon?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 14, 2006, 05:36:42 AM
Fighter: Su-27, Gripen or Eurofighter
Attacker: SU-34, F-18 (as a ground attacker only)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on October 14, 2006, 05:38:12 AM
I can respect that.  Hope to talk to you more....signing out. 
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 14, 2006, 07:08:13 AM
oh

i meant with the gripen/eurofighter/rafale stealth is they have stealth capabilites, not great but better then nothing

Rafale Eurofighter and Gripen are poor mens Raptors!!
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on October 14, 2006, 10:33:44 AM
Hmph. there was no RSAF in there. That's got the best PILOTS, even if not the planes :)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 14, 2006, 10:34:52 AM
a pilot is only as good as his plane Raptor
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on October 14, 2006, 10:39:25 AM
Maybe. but say the Camels against the Albatroses in WWI. The Albatroses had incredible disadvantages. They shot down hundreds of Camels.

well, we've got good enough avionics, hope that does some credit.  ;D
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 14, 2006, 10:41:34 AM
avionics are a big help, but in a dogfight who honestly looks at the radar? Human eyes are better close range then any radar or whatnot
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on October 14, 2006, 10:47:32 AM
Ah. dogfight. F-16s are manuverable enough, no?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 14, 2006, 10:50:10 AM
they are good, but a Gripen can out manoeuvre them easily, because i somehow think that a F-16 will rip itself to pieces if it tried a 9g manoeure! ;)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on October 14, 2006, 10:55:26 AM
They are 9g capable. lol. Well, if you consider the larger lift-load of the F-16 to the Gripen... he he  ;D
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 14, 2006, 11:01:54 AM
fair enough, but dont forget to count in the pilots

a good pilot versus a great pilot- i know who i would bet on :P
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on October 14, 2006, 11:14:15 AM
Manfred von Richthofen vs you. i'd bet on The red baron. sure as death.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 14, 2006, 11:18:57 AM
erm, id vote for me

simply because the Red baron would have trouble dog fighting with his obvious handicap

being dead and all ;)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on October 14, 2006, 11:22:51 AM
Let's assume he's alive and kicking.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Cobra2 on October 15, 2006, 07:33:46 PM
the whole program is stupid- i think the whole stealth principal is

there is no true stealth attack plane (the U2 could be considered a stealth, so is the Blackbird, but they couldnt blow stuff up)

the most stealthy plane normally (F-22 and JSF dont because they are stealth until they open their bomb bay doors) would have to be a Gripen or Rafale, with the Eurofighter close behind

Actually, like Valiant1 said, thats only a split second...not even a whole second...its just like WAM!..all the enemy sees is a very, very small blip...not even for the eye to see unless your really, really paying very close attention and you might see it for 0.10 seconds and then it will be in a completely different location.

And about the three other planes, thats just nonsense...not trying to be mean, but it is  :-\.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on October 16, 2006, 08:45:09 AM
No stealth capability in the Gripen, Eurofighter and Rafale. They all have exterior mounted hardpoints, so you'd be able to see the weapons even if the airframe was a stealth one.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 16, 2006, 08:51:52 AM
yes

but the Gripen, Rafale and Typhoon all have low radar feedbacks, except for the weapons. they have RAM on them, and a system thing that makes it harder for heat seekers to lock onto the exhaust
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on October 16, 2006, 08:53:51 AM
Still, an F-22 would be invisible, while, if the 3 were flying fully armed, they would look as stealthy as a lighthouse to the enemy.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 16, 2006, 08:55:48 AM
correct me if i am wrong, but dosent the F35 have hardpoints on its wings?

the raptor dosent need them as its not an attacker, more defender
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on October 16, 2006, 08:57:06 AM
If you haven't noticed, the F-35 has an incredibly FAT fuselage which entails all interior-mounted weapons.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 16, 2006, 08:58:55 AM
i thought it had extra hard points on its wings for extra weapons and such
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on October 16, 2006, 09:01:11 AM
I think you can do that with the F-22 if you wanted to, too. They got rid of the exterior hardpoints to make full use of the stealth.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 16, 2006, 09:03:26 AM
which is more effective

stealth, or enough missiles to destroy anything that moves?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on October 16, 2006, 09:17:13 AM
And made the internal bays bigger, so you can destro anything that moves AND be       . (When you see it without the stealth, it says: 'unseen')
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on October 16, 2006, 03:38:26 PM
The F-22 does have provisions for 4 hardpoints - 2 on each wing - that is if stealth is not a priority on a mission.  The US is currently looking to build a 2-seat variant of the F-22, primarily for attack missions, with a more delta-wing configuration - probably for greater weapons payload and range - again, stealth would not be a factor for this variant, but it will still have smaller radar cross sections than its counterparts.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 17, 2006, 08:25:53 AM
The F-22 does have provisions for 4 hardpoints - 2 on each wing - that is if stealth is not a priority on a mission.  The US is currently looking to build a 2-seat variant of the F-22, primarily for attack missions, with a more delta-wing configuration - probably for greater weapons payload and range - again, stealth would not be a factor for this variant, but it will still have smaller radar cross sections than its counterparts.

why would they make some F-22 Attackers. Dont they already have stealth attack planes in the JSF, F-117 and B2, plus their nuke subs?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on October 17, 2006, 01:09:48 PM
Yeah, well, they might need a bigger payload for the mission, or something...
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on October 17, 2006, 10:17:02 PM
Gripen, I said they were looking, I'm not really sure if they'll build them.  I did see schematics for the attack version.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on October 19, 2006, 10:06:47 AM
Well, the F-22s do maintain the Attack-capability, though not to such an extent as the F-35. So saying, most aircraft do have attack capabilities.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 19, 2006, 11:59:19 AM
so the F-22 has attack capabilites, but it predominetly a fighter

and the JSF has fighter capabilities, but it predominetly a fighter

ok

now im really confused! :(
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on October 19, 2006, 03:26:22 PM
Well, technically, the Raptor is designated F/A-22A Raptor.  If the attack version is ever built, it would be designated F/A22B Raptor, with the larger delta wing configuration and 2 airmen sitting in a tandem position - pilot and weapons officer.  And yes, there are provisions for 4 hardpoints on the wings - 2 on each for the Raptor.  Screw stealth, if the military says it can do all the things they say it can do, load it down with weapons and get the job done the first time!

I don't understand why the USAF would decide to build another mucho expensive version of an already very expensive aircraft - that is why they are building the F-35, which is primarily an attack  aircraft w/fighter capabilities.  The military bigwigs sure don't know how to use common sense - all they know what to do is waste money!!!
 
We're in a world of downsizing - where we used to have fighters, fighter-bombers, attack, ground attack/support, anti-radar, flying gas tank - the US wants one aircraft to do all those tasks - look at the new F/A 18E & F Hornets -

the F model is going to do the task of attack, fighter, anti-radar (like the EA-6BProwler, it will be redesignated F-18G Growler), and possibly a flying gas tank. 
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on October 20, 2006, 07:59:42 AM
pfft

anyone can make a flying gas tank

Step 1: Get a gas tank (or steal one of those trucks that carry the fuel)
Step 2: Stick 2 wings on it
Step 3: Attach rocket engine
Step 4: Attach drivers compartment, with a Martin Baker Ejection Seat, and a compressed air breaking canopy (hehe Gripen ;D)
Step 4: Start rocket engine and hold on
Step 5: MAKE SURE YOU DONT SMOKE AROUND THE FLYING GAS TANK. FIRE AND GAS DONT MIX OK??

(hmm i should try this:>)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on October 20, 2006, 04:19:36 PM
My point, Gripen, is that I don't agree w/what the military is doing - they can build different airframes that still use common parts - like the engines, avionics and weapons systems.  I don't believe the F/A-18 E & F Hornet is a good enough plane to do the job - they certainly can't replace the F-14 Tomcat's superiority and capability.  The F-14 is only being replace by the Super Bug because of the Bug's reliabiltiy and simplicity for maintenance.  Other than that, I don't believe it has anything on the SuperCat.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Cobra2 on October 21, 2006, 04:25:06 PM
Exactly.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on October 23, 2006, 09:28:11 AM
I third that.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: terminator on December 21, 2006, 02:42:14 PM
no offense ,but i dont know y anyone would vote for the pakisatani or indian air force,only the US ,Europe,andRussia should b in the poll..!!!!! >:D
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on December 21, 2006, 10:29:08 PM
Pakistan and India hate each other. Each country is a threat to each other, and they have huge air forces to defend themselves against each other. They are big enough to be compared, even if the planes might be a bit second rate compared to the US and Europe
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on January 17, 2007, 09:18:56 AM
Like the big ugly jet shown here.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on January 17, 2007, 03:28:55 PM
I have to agree with Gripen here,  both Pakistan and India are building up their military dramatically, as a deterrent to each other.  They are both acquiring all the latest technology from the West, China and Russia.  This is a dangerous, to say the least, game they're playing.

Both air forces train intensely, so yes, they are not to be counted out.  But all in all, they'll still have a rough time against Western Air Forces.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: terminator on January 18, 2007, 12:01:56 AM
actuallu (well i know it sounds kind of weird ) but i dont think india and pakistan would attack each other iam mean is like the ussr and us in the cold war ,they have hotlines connecting each president , the UN ,and all if not more of the things tha we had with the soviets
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on January 18, 2007, 07:38:15 AM
If something happens, neither counrty will waste the time talking to the UN or each other, they will respond by blowing the crap out of anything that moves
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on January 20, 2007, 04:29:09 PM
Hey, come on, be a little bit more careful with your words... I'm very near to those two insane countries...
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on January 20, 2007, 07:45:17 PM
Yes you are, aren't you?  Think about moving to another country maybe?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on January 22, 2007, 01:18:55 PM
No... I think i'll have to convince them not to fight.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on January 23, 2007, 02:12:34 AM
HAHA id really like to see that
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on January 23, 2007, 09:28:26 AM
You know, Singapore is known as the centre of the world's food population.
Title: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: robotcop on January 26, 2007, 06:59:06 PM
i think the best air force in world would be btw China and the USA, because of their pilots that have a lot of skills and they got the best air plane in the world, cause of their advence tech and economy in their countries, plus they are organized.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Cobra2 on January 26, 2007, 11:01:13 PM
When is the Chinese J-10 going to come into service?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Globetrotter on January 27, 2007, 12:01:41 AM
I don't know, but I read on other forum that the JF-17 has been cancelled. In fact, it was Tomcatboy48237 who posted it, (I hope you don't mind). Here I leave a link to the article:


http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2007/01/stuck-in-sichuan-pakistani-jf17-program-grounded/index.php (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2007/01/stuck-in-sichuan-pakistani-jf17-program-grounded/index.php)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on January 27, 2007, 02:10:56 PM
The J-10 looks painfully like the 'General's chinese MiGs... Exactly the same, matter of fact...

I don't know much about their industry, but it seems like their aircraft are coming up-to-date with the rest of the world as fast as anything...
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on January 28, 2007, 04:46:49 AM
Thats surprising. No offence to any Chinese people that are on the forum, but i thought China was backwards when it came to developing their own planes. Im not sure, but i dont think they have the funding that the US and Europe have, and what Russia had.

And all the Euro/US countries have experience in this kinda thing, where as China dosent...Euro/US know what the need, and they know how to get it, but how does China?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Cobra2 on January 28, 2007, 05:06:41 PM
Thats what I'm thinking too.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on January 29, 2007, 08:25:38 AM
I don't think you guys will have much idea about this, but in SG we've got students coming over from china on scholarship. They are absolute geniuses. And besides, they've got a population bigger than anything on earth. You think they won't have plenty of folks who can tell what they need? And apart from that, They have Russia's influence.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on January 29, 2007, 08:48:31 AM
they dont have the combat experience, thats what i meant
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on January 29, 2007, 09:04:10 AM
3 Millenia of civil wars... HAHAHA
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on January 29, 2007, 09:58:38 AM
hmm, and in how many of the civil wars did they have air power??
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on January 29, 2007, 11:30:45 AM
None. They had the best technology in the world. And they have the best generals ever.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on January 29, 2007, 12:21:50 PM
again.. they had air power in wich ones?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on January 29, 2007, 03:52:32 PM
In reply  to all your posts, don't underestimate China - they do have the funds to procure a significant number of fighters and fighter/bombers.  Most of them from Russia.  Not only are they gobbling up all the planes from Russia, but also the Russian surface combat ships.  They do have first-rate technology that they have acquired from Western European nations as well as a brief intermingling with the Israelis on which I believe is the J-10 project that was mentioned before.

Where else do you think they're getting the funds to build up their military - the World Trade Organization - yep, all the Western companies, particularly America, that have set up big companies in China and where the Chinese are making billions from Western companies.

I always have felt that Communist China is a military threat not just to the U.S., but to European nations.  Another issue is they are resolved in taking back Taiwan - even if it means using military force.   So the People's Liberation Army Air Force is nothing to sneeze at - they are armed with Flankers, Super Flankers, Fulcrums, J-10s and not to mention - half the world's population they can throw at any army.

When that day comes, we're in a lot of trouble. 
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: robotcop on January 29, 2007, 06:40:28 PM
wa are u smoking  >:(  >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D the usa have the best military in the world  8)  >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Cobra2 on January 29, 2007, 10:50:39 PM
In reply  to all your posts, don't underestimate China - they do have the funds to procure a significant number of fighters and fighter/bombers.  Most of them from Russia.  Not only are they gobbling up all the planes from Russia, but also the Russian surface combat ships.  They do have first-rate technology that they have acquired from Western European nations as well as a brief intermingling with the Israelis on which I believe is the J-10 project that was mentioned before.

Where else do you think they're getting the funds to build up their military - the World Trade Organization - yep, all the Western companies, particularly America, that have set up big companies in China and where the Chinese are making billions from Western companies.

I always have felt that Communist China is a military threat not just to the U.S., but to European nations.  Another issue is they are resolved in taking back Taiwan - even if it means using military force.   So the People's Liberation Army Air Force is nothing to sneeze at - they are armed with Flankers, Super Flankers, Fulcrums, J-10s and not to mention - half the world's population they can throw at any army.

When that day comes, we're in a lot of trouble. 


I don't underestimate them at all...also because of their Super Flankers and Flankers too.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on January 30, 2007, 01:25:18 AM
HOW MANY AIR WARS HAS CHINA BEEN IN.. THEY HAD THE US FIGHTING FOR THEM IN WW2..

ALL THE OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE EXPERIENCE IN AIR WARFARE, WHEREAS CHINA IS BUYING PLANES FROM COUNTRIES THAT WERE BUILT FOR THOSE COUNTRIES..

HOW DOES CHINA KNOW THAT WHAT RUSSIA HAS IT WAT CHINA NEEDS?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on January 30, 2007, 07:02:47 AM
Russia is communist. Russia is big. Russia is poor. Russia is crazy and has lots of folks to spare. Their the same, aren't they?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on January 30, 2007, 07:43:12 AM
Oh forget it
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Valiant1 on February 01, 2007, 05:30:07 AM
To answer robotcop, yes the United States definitely has the funds to continue training our pilots, be it Air Force, Navy or Marines.  And to answer Gripen, it doesn't matter they haven't been in any air war, what - you think they're not training their pilots and they're just buying up most of Russia's planes for display?

To answer you both - you don't think they are training their armed services - then you're both more gullible than I thought.   And if their training doesn't win in an air war against the United States or any advanced Western nation, then their numbers will - just look at the Korean War - the United Nations armies ran out of bullets before China ran out of troops.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on February 01, 2007, 05:44:38 AM
Oh forget it

I RULE.  >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: robotcop on February 01, 2007, 05:15:40 PM
(Valiant1 )dats true but I still think that true thanx a lot ( TO Raptor) Why do u Rule  ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on February 02, 2007, 07:21:47 AM
(to Mr. Rob) 'Cos i always say that when i win a debate. Haha just kidding. I wonf Grip, didn't i?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: robotcop on February 02, 2007, 03:41:01 PM
ok ok ok
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on February 03, 2007, 09:37:28 AM
BTW, what happened to Mr. Robotcop?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on February 03, 2007, 09:39:22 AM
he changing name to foxbat!
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: terminator on February 16, 2007, 02:22:09 AM
foxhound.... russia is not communist anymore , and china is dangerous not because of quality ,but quantity ,gripen remenber my example with the abrams?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on February 16, 2007, 08:23:45 AM
Man we got serious contest for highest position here. Terminator's movin' up the ladder so fast... They have Quality AND Quantity. Marginal Quality and immense Quantity. They're more a threat to any country that even places like USA are because of that.

Doesn't matter. The influence of communism is still there.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on February 16, 2007, 09:21:35 AM
why arnt the US and China haven their own cold war like when it was the US and the USSR?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: terminator on February 16, 2007, 02:49:58 PM
what do you mean im moving up the ladder? what ladder? and Gripen r u high?? ok we'll have land warrior and a lot of more tech support against china ,but theres just too many chinamen ,if the chinese gov goes rambo and drafts wel'll b facing 200,000,000 chinamen ,,Fok that
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Cobra2 on February 16, 2007, 07:45:50 PM
Yeah...it would be hard to keep up with a battlefield with that many enemies  :o
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Gripen on February 17, 2007, 03:12:05 AM
Well. tell Bush to stop being such a prick and y ou wont have to worry about a war
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on February 17, 2007, 08:08:17 AM
I mean, Vet already? That's fast, man.

Well. tell Bush to stop being such a prick and y ou wont have to worry about a war

True. You're one of those anti-conservatives, aren't you?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: terminator on February 17, 2007, 07:38:56 PM
everyone blames bush ,what if hes not president anymore ,who u gonna blame?
 ??? ???
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Foxhound21 on February 17, 2007, 09:17:06 PM
well he is the one who stared the there is nuc weapons in Irak blah blah blah
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on February 19, 2007, 08:22:43 AM
Actually, it was the CIA. And Kerry used to support the invasion. One of the best. So now what do you think? Bush still desrves to die? And what if there was nuke weapons? Then you probably be vapourised by now, no?
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Foxhound21 on February 19, 2007, 04:59:56 PM
Actually, it was the CIA. And Kerry used to support the invasion. One of the best. So now what do you think? Bush still desrves to die? And what if there was nuke weapons? Then you probably be vapourised by now, no?
But there is none,,,and let me tell u something when George Herbert Walker Bush was president he wanted to ivade Irak too they just want OIL
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on February 26, 2007, 07:55:36 AM
Imagine if Iraq had Nukes and Bush says, 'But there might not be!', then Iraq blows up USA, and Saddam is still in office.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Globetrotter on February 26, 2007, 12:23:17 PM
Imagine if Iraq had Nukes and Bush says, 'But there might not be!', then Iraq blows up USA, and Saddam is still in office.

Then it would be the same the US did with Iraq!!!
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Cobra2 on February 26, 2007, 07:04:22 PM
Its different...were not using nukes  ::) and we didnt blow up Iraq  :P
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Globetrotter on February 26, 2007, 08:53:08 PM
You managed to mess it up without nukes...  ::) and it is almost blown up.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Foxhound21 on February 26, 2007, 09:43:29 PM
aja  :o
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: terminator on February 27, 2007, 12:36:58 AM
i agree i mean what if there really was nukes in iraq
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Cobra2 on February 27, 2007, 01:48:15 AM
You managed to mess it up without nukes...  ::) and it is almost blown up.


Your right, it would be better with Saddam in control wouldnt it? stupid me  ::)
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Raptor on February 27, 2007, 08:48:35 AM
Oh, yeah. Just wait till he rules your country and start talking that Saddam's the best guy around.

You managed to mess it up without nukes...   ::) and it is almost blown up.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. Imagine if dear old Saddam allied himself to the other mid-east countries, blew your up and forced your sister/girlfriend/wife/whatever into pros- and made you do slave labour 24/7? Woooooooo. Cool. Bush was worse.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Globetrotter on February 27, 2007, 05:52:17 PM
Ok, anyway, I will never understand you. You will never understand me. Why do we continue arguing and this doesn't get deleted???
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Viggen on February 27, 2007, 10:08:27 PM
Why do we continue arguing and this doesn't get deleted???

I was kind of hoping you are old enough guys would figure it out on your own and put a stop to it. Or start a new thread under "General Discussion" where it belongs.
Title: Re: Which Air Force is Best?
Post by: Globetrotter on February 27, 2007, 10:43:30 PM
In my honest opinion, just a member, it doesn't belong anywhere on this site, not even in general dicussion. Cause it has nothing to do with aviation! And this site is about military aviation. :(