MILAVIA Forum - Military Aviation Discussion Forum

Author Topic: Which country has the best air defence.  (Read 21112 times)

Offline Berkut

  • Pilot
  • **
  • Posts: 13
Which country has the best air defence.
« on: June 22, 2005, 03:47:16 AM »
I think it's Germany,it has the most professional air force and not that much air space.

Offline RecceJet

  • Global Moderator
  • Fighter Ace
  • *******
  • Posts: 404
  • Country: au
Re: Which country has the best air defence.
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2005, 04:49:21 AM »
The US would deem it necessary to win any and every conflict for the purpose of popular support; it has been proven how strong public opinion can be in a war effort. This compared  to Israel's need to simply survive, let alone hold any ground in world opinion.

Japan has no real threat in the region. The only thing North Korea could realisticly throw at Japan is some ballistic missiles. Japan has Kongo class Aegis warships that can take care of that threat.

Russia is in no immediate threat of being overrun by Chechen rebels, though being relatively sparsely populated I guess they could be paranoid about the Chinese eyeing the resources in Russia's east.

Ok, this is probably not the best reason (and no offence intended to any German patrons), but I voted for Israel out of the given options because Germany has already lost two wars in the last 100 years ;)

Considering that Israel is a fraction of Germany's landmass, and having - in effect - no strategic depth, they've done pretty damn good to hold off the Arabs over half a dozen wars. Also keeping in mind that "air defence" covers not only the air force of a country, but also early warning and surface-to-air missile systems, Israel is at the leading edge of research and technological advances in defensive measures. Any copy of Janes Defense Weekly will run a couple of articles about Israel's latest technological applications in any variety of fields:
  • The Hetz (Arrow) anti-ballistic missile is operational and is believed to be among the best of its kind.
  • The Phalcon early warning system aboard the Israeli B707 is said to be more than a match for the E-3 Sentry.
  • Israel and America have a joint research program into laser technology for a range of purposes, including defence against rocket/mortar attacks.

The list of advances is almost limitless, and a good reason is for the very fact that Israel cannot afford to lose a single battle. Germany has no immediate hostile neighbours, therefore I would argue that Israel has the best air defence - out of necessity.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2005, 06:14:27 AM by RecceJet »

Offline Berkut

  • Pilot
  • **
  • Posts: 13
Re: Which country has the best air defence.
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2005, 06:01:19 AM »
Yes Germans did lost two wars, but look how much damage they did to hole Europe, Russia and U.S troops.It fought with two  biggest and most powerfull countries, comparing  it is as big as Taxes. And now , look  at that training of NATO forces in Italy ; dogfights in witch took part Italian f-16 against German primitive model of mig-29 A , and guess who won? - German mig. :o

Offline Webmaster

  • MILAVIA Webmaster
  • Administrator
  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 2843
  • Country: nl
Re: Which country has the best air defence.
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2005, 01:58:22 PM »
Come on, Germany lacks in air defense because of Eurofighter delays and cutbacks. Those MiGs you love so much have been retired, and they didn't fly that many anyway. No the majority of the air defense is composed of F-4F Phantoms, and although their AIM-120 AMRAAM capability makes them a good interceptor, they are truly not a good match. The Tornados are not really for air defense, but if they would have to face an attack, the best they can do are the AIM-9Ls. Eurofighter is slowly entering service, so it might be a pretty good service, but compared to the US, UK, Russia and Israel, I wouldn't choose them.  The UK has more Eurofighters on order, E-3 AWACS aircraft, the F.3 is upgraded with AMRAAM and ASRAAM. And the Tornado GR.4 carries ASRAAM as well. And don't forget the stationed US F-15s in the country. Also it has the north sea as buffer.
German defenses have been crippled by budget cuts since the cold war, and in the cold war, Germany was really just a buffer for the west, filled with offensive aircraft from UK and US to attack incoming tank formation, it would be the frontline. Main problem is the lack of AWACS.

I've seen some nice charts of the Russian air defenses around Moscow, pretty amazing.

Italian F-16s, what do you expect, it is the first time in many years they have been operating such an agile aircraft. They have operating it for what, 2 years now?

If we go back to WWII, you might want to prefer UK air defense, which manage to hold off the attackers. German air defense although pretty good equipped with radar, nightfighters, strong day fighters and not to forget the 88mm and FLAK weapons, the allied bombers managed to bomb all major German city including Berlin in the east of the country. The damage they did to Russia/Europe has nothing to do with air defense, but with offensive blitz actions (the Luftwaffe was never that successfull and losses were high).

Israel is pretty good, but they needed PATRIOTs on several occasions from allies to protect against SCUDs. The Arrow should be filling that gap now.
  • Interests: Su-15, Su-27, Tu-22, Tornado, RNLAF
Niels Hillebrand
MILAVIA Webmaster

Offline RecceJet

  • Global Moderator
  • Fighter Ace
  • *******
  • Posts: 404
  • Country: au
Re: Which country has the best air defence.
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2005, 02:54:16 PM »
Israel is pretty good, but they needed PATRIOTs on several occasions from allies to protect against SCUDs. The Arrow should be filling that gap now.

True, the US deployed several MIM-104 Patriot batteries to Israel during the early 90s, but this only so that the US could convince Israel not to take the option of the pre-emptive strike. The Sayaret Matkal (Israeli special forces) was rumoured to have been in Iraq at the time, ready to lase Saddam's SS-1B Scuds, and Israeli pilots were waiting in their jets with engines idling throught the conflict. In my personal opinion I'd say that if the US didn't hold Israel on a tight leash (so that the US could gain the support of Arabs in the Coalition Forces), Israel would have gone in and given Saddam a bloody nose, on a much larger scale than the Osirak reactor attack of 1981.

Offline Berkut

  • Pilot
  • **
  • Posts: 13
Re: Which country has the best air defence.
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2005, 12:32:19 AM »
I was talking about German professionalism not their equipment. Talking about equipment, I think Russian air defence force is the best,they got 300 mig-31s and 200 su-27s that are capable of interception incoming  missiles and any aircraft including stealth planes. They also have in service about 2000 missles including s-400.  :-*

Offline Webmaster

  • MILAVIA Webmaster
  • Administrator
  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 2843
  • Country: nl
Re: Which country has the best air defence.
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2005, 01:48:43 AM »
True, keeping Israel out of the conflict was a good move, but Saddam wasn't stupid either firing SCUDs to show their capability, but not loading them with nasty warloads (yet). Also the Netherlands and Germany deployed Patriots in 1991, but in 2003 the Netherlands deployed Patriots to Turkey instead.

True, and those S-300 and S-400 systems are not to be underestimated, probably the best ones around.
  • Interests: Su-15, Su-27, Tu-22, Tornado, RNLAF
Niels Hillebrand
MILAVIA Webmaster

elias_b

  • Guest
Re: Which country has the best air defence.
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2005, 11:33:17 AM »
But the S-400 only enters service in very small numbers yet. And don't forget the future US air defence. For ballistic missiles and conventional aircraft, they will deploy the THAAD, and for the medium range, they are deploying a surface-to-air Amraam.

Offline Webmaster

  • MILAVIA Webmaster
  • Administrator
  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 2843
  • Country: nl
Re: Which country has the best air defence.
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2005, 03:20:38 PM »
The Airborne Laser is another nice project of the U.S.

Both have some years of development remaining though.

With PAC-III fully operational and matured, THAADs in place, ABL, F/A-22 in service, all F-15s upgraded, the US will have superb air defence. But what about QRA? I bet Israel can get more aircraft in the air simultaneously in the same area quicker  than the others.
  • Interests: Su-15, Su-27, Tu-22, Tornado, RNLAF
Niels Hillebrand
MILAVIA Webmaster

Offline Goose

  • Flight Leader
  • ***
  • Posts: 73
  • Country: tt
Re: Which country has the best air defence.
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2005, 01:27:39 AM »
I voted Isreal because of their history, they've defended their country on numerous occassions against much superior forces, numerically superior anyway. The level of professionalism is the highest I think out of all the countries in the poll. The US still has in fightin on a grand scale within the millitary for various reasons. In Isreal it is a collective effort to survive! They fly top of the line equipment and are alway developing equipment to stay leaps ahead of any potential adversary. Their closest contender in the region I think is Saudi Arabia. I personaly am very glad to see the Isrealis devlop the Arrow. Sure they require alot of US support and can't fight a protracted war but we have to put the poll in to context of what the threat is. Additionally the Isrealis would employ tactics to ensure that they don't have to fight a long war. The best deffence is a strong offence.

I really don't think Germany measures up, old equipment and history. Russia doesn't have the money to fully develop their potential for a world class air defence system. For one their pilots do not fly enough.

Offline Viggen

  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 1413
  • Country: se
  • We are not promised a tomorrow.
Re: Which country has the best air defence.
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2005, 08:19:08 AM »
I voted for US...Why?

Well, since 9/11 USAF have been on high alert. You cant even fart in US-airspace without asking for permission first, while two F16´s sneaking up behind you.  :)
  • Interests: SAAB 37 Viggen
Patrik S.

Offline Berkut

  • Pilot
  • **
  • Posts: 13
Re: Which country has the best air defence.
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2005, 12:33:17 AM »
Future U.S. air defence, THAAD,AMRAAM, what  makes it better ???than Russian, s-300, s-400, PANTSYR S1.

 



AVIATION TOP 100 - www.avitop.com click to vote for MILAVIA