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Author Topic: F-16 C/D v/s MIRAGE 2000-5 v/s GRIPEN v/s MIG-29  (Read 25178 times)

Offline nobody

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F-16 C/D v/s MIRAGE 2000-5 v/s GRIPEN v/s MIG-29
« on: May 30, 2005, 03:54:44 AM »
hi guys i need info reg which is the best multi-role fighter of the 4.

Offline Air Marshal

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Re: F-16 C/D v/s MIRAGE 2000-5 v/s GRIPEN v/s MIG-29
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2005, 05:55:05 PM »
hi guys i need info reg which is the best multi-role fighter of the 4.

Nobody u want u take info or POLL......  ???
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Offline Air Marshal

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Re: F-16 C/D v/s MIRAGE 2000-5 v/s GRIPEN v/s MIG-29
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2005, 07:04:22 PM »
Dassault-Brequet Mirage 2000

Role: Interceptor, Multi-role fighter-bomber
Builder: Dassault-Brequet
Variants: 2000A (prototype), 2000B, 2000C, 2000-5, 2000-5F, 2000E, 2000ED, 2000ER, 2000P, 2000N, 2000D, 2000S, 2000-9
Operators: France, Abu Dhabi, Egypt, Greece, India, Peru, Qatar, Taiwan, United Arab Emirates
Mirage 2000 is a low-set delta wing combat aircraft which is an extremely agile and manoeuvrable fighter developed for the French Air Force. The Mirage 2000 started its service life as an interceptor, designated 2000C and the two-seat trainer 2000B. The 2000-5 is a multi-role variant capable of using the Super 530D or Sky Flash Air-to-Air Missiles. Initially ordered 37 Mirage 2000C by the French Air Force have been updated to 2000-5 standard, designated 2000-5F. Export models are designated 2000E for the single seat fighters and 2000ED for two-seat trainers and 2000ER for single seat reconnaissance variants.
The Mirage 2000P (Penetration), later designated 2000N (Nuclear), is a low-altitude attack aircraft capable of delivering the ASMP tactical nuclear missile and was based on the Mirage 2000B two-seat trainer variant. It has a revised avionics suite and strengthened fuselage for the low-altitude role and the Antilope 5 nose radar, which is optimized for terrain following, ground mapping and navigation are has aditional air-to-air and air-to-sea modes. The rear seat is occupied by a WSO which has twin navigation systems and an additional moving map. The aircraft configurated with only the ASMP missile and 2 Magic AAMs is designated 2000N-K1, while the K2 configuration can also carry alternative loads.
Developed from the 2000N-K2 is the Mirage 2000D, equipped with GPS it is developed for the use of laser guided weapons, but is not capable of carrying the ASMP missile. The 2000D-R1N1L is equipped with laser guided weapons and Magic AAMs only, while the R1 configuration can be equipped with the full range of conventional weapons. The R2 configuration is upgraded with a fully integrated self-defence suite and is compatible with the Apache stand-off weapons dispenser. The export model of the Mirage 2000D is designated 2000S, where the S stands for Strike.
Mirage 2000-9 is the designation for the upgraded version of the Mirage 2000 export models of the United Arab Emirates.
Dassault is now marketing the Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2 which will be built either as a new aircraft or retrofitted from currently operated Mirage 2000Cs or 2000Es. It features an integrated mission system with a glass cockpit, digital modular avionics and enhanced communications.
Specification Mirage 2000C:
Powerplant: one 95.1 kN (21,385 lb st) SNECMA M53-P2 afterburning turbofan
Dimensions: length 14.36m (47 ft 1¼ in); height 5.20m (17 ft ¼ in); wing span 9.13m (29 ft 111½ in)
Weights: empty 7500 kg (16,534 lb); Max Take-Off Weight 17.000 kg (37,480 lb)
Performance: max level speed at 11.000m (36,069 ft) Mach 2.2 or 2338 km/h (1,453 mph); service ceiling 16,460m (54,000 ft)
Armament: two internal DEFA 554 30mm cannons with 125 rounds per gun; up tp 6300 kg (13,889 lb) of ordnance, including guided bombs, anti-runway bombs, retarded/free fall bombs, cluster bombs, AS30L/ARMAT anti-radiation missiles, 68 or 10mm rocket launchers, ECM pods, up to three drop tanks, Magic/Magic 2 AAMs, MICA AAMs, carried on up to nine external hardpoints.

Specification Mirage 2000N-K2:
Powerplant: one 95.1 kN (21,385 lb st) SNECMA M53-P2 afterburning turbofan
Dimensions: length 14.55m (47 ft 9 in); height 5.15m (16 ft 10¼ in); wing span 9.13m (29 ft 11½ in)
Weights: empty 7600 kg (16,755 lb); Max Take-Off Weight 17.000 kg (37,480 lb)
Performance: max level speed at 11.000m (36,069 ft) Mach 2.2 or 2338 km/h (1,453 mph); service ceiling 16,460m (54,000 ft)
Armament: one 900kg (1,984lb) ASMP tactical nuclear missile; up tp 6300 kg (13,889 lb) of ordnance, including guided bombs, anti-runway bombs, retarded/free fall bombs, cluster bombs, APACHE munition dispensers, AS30L/ARMAT anti-radiation missiles, AM39 Exocet Anti-Ship Missiles, 68mm or 10mm rocket pods, CC630 twin 30mm gun pods, up to three drop tanks, Magic/Magic 2 AAMs, carried on up to nine external hardpoints.

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Saab-BAe JAS 39 Gripen

Role: Multi-role fighter
Builder: Saab Aerospace, (BAE SYSTEMS)
Variants: JAS 39A, JAS 39B, JAS 39C, JAS 39D
Operators: Sweden, South Africa, Hungary, Czech Republic
The JAS 39 Gripen is a small, agile and lightweight fighter design for multiple roles in the Royal Swedish Air Force. JAS stands for Jagt-Attack-Spaning which means Fighter-Attack-Reconnaissance. The Gripen (Griffon) design features canards positioned close in front of the delta wing. It is powered by the Volvo licensed built General Electric F404-GE-400 engine. The airframe structure incorporates light but extremely strong composite materials. It has a modern glass cockpit with three multi function displays and a wide-angle HUD. Its easily programmable software and associated systems make the aircraft suitable to configure it for all kinds of mission profiles.
The JAS 39A single-seater and the JAS 39B two-seater were the first production aircraft to enter service in the Swedish Air Force in 1997. The improved JAS 39C and two-seat version JAS 39D are the latest production batch. Improvements include air-to-air refueling capability, NATO weapon pylons, and NATO compatible systems. The export versions are also based on the C/D variants. After 2004 Swedish A/B variants will be updated to Batch 3 (C/D) standard.
Export customers thus far are South Africa, Czech Republic and Hungary. South Africa was the first foreign customer for the Gripen, ordering 19 single-seat and 9 twin-seat aircraft in 1999. The aircraft will be delivered between 2007 and 2011 and replace the Cheetah C/D aircraft currently in service.
In 2003 Hungary signed a lease-and-purchase contract for 12 single-seat and 2 twin-seat aircraft to be delivered in 2006 and 2007. The contract consists of a 10 year lease after which the aircraft will be property of the Hungarian government. The Gripen will be fully NATO compliant and represent the main fighting force of the Hungarian air force for the next 30 years.
In 2004 the Czech Republic signed a lease contract for twelve single-seat and two twin-seat Gripen aircraft for a period of 10 years. The aircraft are diverted from the production line destined for the Swedish Air Force for reduced delivery times. The first Czech Gripen made its first flight in November 2004 and will be delivered to the Czech Air Force in April 2005, making the Czech Republic the first NATO operator of the type. The last aircraft is to be delivered in August 2005. The JAS 39 C/D is fully NATO compliant and will fill the gap in the Czech air defense left by the MiG-23/29 disposal and MiG-21 retirement.
The Gripen was also offered to Poland to fill its requirement for 48 fourth generation fighter aircraft, but Lockheed Martin's F-16C/D Block 52 fighter was the winner. Austria preferred the Eurofighter Typhoon over the Gripen. The Saab-BAE SYSTEMS consortium also lost potential export sales to customers the Joint Strike Fighter, such as the Netherlands and Australia. Brazil is still postponing its decision for its future fighter, which may be the Gripen, Mirage 2000-9 or Su-35. Thailand was also interested in the Gripen, but no deal could be materialized between the Thai and Swedish government and it seems to be looking at the Sukhoi Su-30MKI variant instead.
Specifications:
Powerplant: one 80.5 kN (18,100 lb st) General Electric/Volvo Flygmotor RM12 (F404-GE-400) afterburning turbofan

Dimensions: length 14.10m (46 ft 3 in); height 4.50m (14 ft 9 in); wing span 8.40m (27ft 6¼ in)

Weights: empty 6622 kg (14,600 lb); Max Take-Off Weight 12.500 kg (27,560 lb)

Performance: Estimated max level speed at 10975m (36,000 ft) Mach 2.0 or 2126 km/h (1321 mph)

Armament: one Mauser MK27 27mm cannon; up to 6500 kg (14,330 lb) of Air-to-Surface Missiles, munitions dispensers, rockets, free-fall bombs, Air-to-Air Missiles including AIM-120 AMRAAM, reconnaissance sensor pods, auxiliary fuel tanks.

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Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29 Fulcrum

Role: Multi-role fighter
Builder: Mikoyan-Gurevich
Variants: MiG-29 (Fulcrum-A), MiG-29UB/UBT (Fulcrum-B), MiG-29C (Fulcrum-C), MiG-29K/KVP (Fulcrum-D), MiG-29KUB, MiG-29M/ME/MT (MiG-33), MiG-29N, MiG-29S/SD/SE, MiG-29SMT, MiG-29MRCA/M2
Operators: Russia, Algeria, Angola, Belarus, Bangladesh, Bulgaria, Cuba, Czech Republic, Eritrea, Germany, Hungary, India, Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Malaysia, Moldova, Myanmar, North Korea, Peru, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Sudan, Syria, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, USAF (stored), Uzbekistan, Yemen, Yugoslavia
The MiG-29 (NATO reporting name 'Fulcrum') is a single-seat air superiority fighter, developed by Mikoyan Design Bureau, Russia. Although it has little sophisticated avionics and no fly-by-wire flight control system, the MiG-29's agility and maneuverability make it equal to the contemporary Western fighter aircraft, like the American F-16 Falcon and F-15 Eagle. The two powerful RD-33 turbofan engines give the MiG-29 a high thrust-to-weight ratio, enabling vertical climb with acceleration. The MiG-29 was the first fighter to be equipped with dual-mode air intakes. When in the air the large intakes under the fuselage take in the air for the engines. On the ground, these intakes are closed and the much smaller intakes on top of the forward wing take in the air. This reduces the chance of objects to be sucked into the engines, enabling the MiG-29 to operate from unprepared airstrips.

The MiG-29 is equipped with the N-019 (NATO 'Slot Back') radar, enabling the MiG-29 to intercept air targets beyond visual range with R-27 missiles. The forward looking infra red search and track (IRST) sensor provides target aquisation for IR guided missiles, such as the R-60 and R-73 missiles. The helmet mounted target designation reticle, combined with its high turning agility and manoeuvrability, enables the MiG-29 to engage targets with IR guided weapons at close range outside the MiG-29's forward direction.

The MiG-29 was widely exported to nearly 30 countries and is still operated in large numbers. For most East-European countries the MiG-29 remains the most capable aircraft in service. Several MiG-29 upgrade packages are offered to current operators as well as upgraded version to possible new operators. One example of this is the latest MiG-29MRCA which was offered to Austria to compete with the Eurofighter Typhoon and Saab Gripen.
Specifications:
Powerplant: two 81.40 kN (18,300 lb st) Sarkisov RD-33 afterburning turbofans
Dimensions: length 17.32m (56 ft 10 in); height 4.73m (15 ft 6½ in); wing span 11.36m (37ft 3½ in)
Weights: 'clean' 15.240 kg (33,600 lb); Max Take-Off Weight 18.500 kg (40,785 lb)
Performance: max level speed at high altitude Mach 2.3 or 2.445 km/h (1,520 mph); service ceiling 17,000m (55,775 ft)
Armament: one 30mm Gsh-30-1 cannon with 150 rounds; 3000 kg (6,614 lb) of disposable stores including Air-to-Air Missiles (R-60, R-73, R-27), Air-to-Surface Missiles, free-fall or guided bombs, cluster bombs, dispensor weapons, rocket launchers, drop tanks and ECM pods carried on 6 external hardpoints.

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F-16 FIGHTING FALCON
Mission
The F-16 Fighting Falcon is a compact, multi-role fighter aircraft. It is highly maneuverable and has proven itself in air-to-air combat and air-to-surface attack. It provides a relatively low-cost, high-performance weapon system for the United States and allied nations.

Features
In an air combat role, the F-16's maneuverability and combat radius (distance it can fly to enter air combat, stay, fight and return) exceed that of all potential threat fighter aircraft. It can locate targets in all weather conditions and detect low flying aircraft in radar ground clutter. In an air-to-surface role, the F-16 can fly more than 500 miles (860 kilometers), deliver its weapons with superior accuracy, defend itself against enemy aircraft, and return to its starting point. An all-weather capability allows it to accurately deliver ordnance during non-visual bombing conditions.

In designing the F-16, advanced aerospace science and proven reliable systems from other aircraft such as the F-15 and F-111 were selected. These were combined to simplify the airplane and reduce its size, purchase price, maintenance costs and weight. The light weight of the fuselage is achieved without reducing its strength. With a full load of internal fuel, the F-16 can withstand up to nine G's -- nine times the force of gravity -- which exceeds the capability of other current fighter aircraft.

The cockpit and its bubble canopy give the pilot unobstructed forward and upward vision, and greatly improved vision over the side and to the rear. The seat-back angle was expanded from the usual 13 degrees to 30 degrees, increasing pilot comfort and gravity force tolerance. The pilot has excellent flight control of the F-16 through its "fly-by-wire" system. Electrical wires relay commands, replacing the usual cables and linkage controls. For easy and accurate control of the aircraft during high G-force combat maneuvers, a side stick controller is used instead of the conventional center-mounted stick. Hand pressure on the side stick controller sends electrical signals to actuators of flight control surfaces such as ailerons and rudder.

Avionics systems include a highly accurate inertial navigation system in which a computer provides steering information to the pilot. The plane has UHF and VHF radios plus an instrument landing system. It also has a warning system and modular countermeasure pods to be used against airborne or surface electronic threats. The fuselage has space for additional avionics systems.

Background
The F-16A, a single-seat model, first flew in December 1976. The first operational F-16A was delivered in January 1979 to the 388th Tactical Fighter Wing at Hill Air Force Base, Utah.

The F-16B, a two-seat model, has tandem cockpits that are about the same size as the one in the A model. Its bubble canopy extends to cover the second cockpit. To make room for the second cockpit, the forward fuselage fuel tank and avionics growth space were reduced. During training, the forward cockpit is used by a student pilot with an instructor pilot in the rear cockpit.

All F-16s delivered since November 1981 have built-in structural and wiring provisions and systems architecture that permit expansion of the multirole flexibility to perform precision strike, night attack and beyond-visual-range interception missions. This improvement program led to the F-16C and F-16D aircraft, which are the single- and two-place counterparts to the F-16A/B, and incorporate the latest cockpit control and display technology. All active units and many Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve units have converted to the F-16C/D.

The F-16 was built under an unusual agreement creating a consortium between the United States and four NATO countries: Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands and Norway. These countries jointly produced with the United States an initial 348 F-16s for their air forces. Final airframe assembly lines were located in Belgium and the Netherlands. The consortium's F-16s are assembled from components manufactured in all five countries. Belgium also provides final assembly of the F100 engine used in the European F-16s. Recently, Portugal joined the consortium. The long-term benefits of this program will be technology transfer among the nations producing the F-16, and a common-use aircraft for NATO nations. This program increases the supply and availability of repair parts in Europe and improves the F-16's combat readiness.

USAF F-16 multi-mission fighters were deployed to the Persian Gulf in 1991 in support of Operation Desert Storm, where more sorties were flown than with any other aircraft. These fighters were used to attack airfields, military production facilities, Scud missiles sites and a variety of other targets.

Most recently in the Spring of 1999 during Operation Allied Force, USAF F-16 multi-mission fighters flew a variety of missions to include suppression of enemy air defense, offensive counter air, defensive counter air, close air support and forward air controller missions. Mission results were outstanding as these fighters destroyed radar sites, vehicles, tanks, MiGs and buildings.

General Characteristics
Primary Function: Multirole fighter
Builder: Lockheed Martin Corp.
Power Plant: F-16C/D: one Pratt and Whitney F100-PW-200/220/229 or General Electric F110-GE-100/129
Thrust: F-16C/D, 27,000 pounds
Length: 49 feet, 5 inches (14.8 meters)
Height: 16 feet (4.8 meters)
Wingspan: 32 feet, 8 inches (9.8 meters)
Speed: 1,500 mph (Mach 2 at altitude)
Ceiling: Above 50,000 feet (15 kilometers)
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 37,500 pounds (16,875 kilograms)
Range: More than 2,000 miles ferry range (1,740 nautical miles)
Armament: One M-61A1 20mm multibarrel cannon with 500 rounds; external stations can carry up to six air-to-air missiles, conventional air-to-air and air-to-surface munitions and electronic countermeasure pods
Unit cost: F-16A/B , $14.6 million (fiscal 98 constant dollars); F-16C/D,$18.8 million (fiscal 98 constant dollars)
Crew: F-16C, one; F-16D, one or two
Date Deployed: January 1979
Inventory: Active force, F-16C, 590 and F-16D, 130; Reserve, F-16C, 60 and F-16D; 10 and Air National Guard, F-16C, 438 and F-16D, 40.

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Offline bhushan

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Re: F-16 C/D v/s MIRAGE 2000-5 v/s GRIPEN v/s MIG-29
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2005, 10:18:05 AM »
hi airmarshal,

i wanted to know that if mirage2000-5 went head to head with an f-16 c/d which aircraft would win
( assuming both pilots were equally good ). 

Offline Prowler

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Re: F-16 C/D v/s MIRAGE 2000-5 v/s GRIPEN v/s MIG-29
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2006, 10:17:32 PM »
I'd say the F-16.

...the other aircraft havn't had much time to prove them selves en rating the MiG-29 as the best for A/G roles, is rediculous. It can but doesn't like A-G. 

...in South Africa, the Gripen is also regarded as a crappy aircraft by ex-SAAF pilots, who saw much action in their Mirage F1's.

Offline osuorsa

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Re: F-16 C/D v/s MIRAGE 2000-5 v/s GRIPEN v/s MIG-29
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2007, 03:42:06 PM »
And in what sense does the F-16 beat the Mirage 2000 in a-a?

In AG role, the best of the list is propably the F-16, becouse of its huge number of munition choises and its radar's AG capability with the proper SAR mode (yeah, I know that the Gripen and the -D Mirage have these toys too)...But the number of different munition choises and the ability to carry a very respectable load of them makes the F-16 so good choise for a light AG attack platform...The new two-seaters like F-16D Block 50/52s equipped with internal jammer (thanks god, they finally got them!), CFT, NVGs, Sniper FLIR (or other kinds), fairly good ride in low-levels (It ain't fun to fly low-level with delta winged a/c!), good precision guided munitions and stand-off weapons and the most modern American avionics in the fields of precise navigation and targeting make it as I said somewhat more suitable for the role, than the other players....

The Gripen and MiG-35 are to close this cap...

Offline Raptor

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Re: F-16 C/D v/s MIRAGE 2000-5 v/s GRIPEN v/s MIG-29
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2007, 12:37:22 PM »
The Gripen does have superb handling, etc. For such a light fighter.

I'd say the F-16 is more of a workhorse than all the others. It's designed specifically so it can take on almost any job, which is something like what the F-18 does, yes.

The Mirage and the Gripen are somewhat more... refined. The Gripen has the platform flexibility, but not that 'can-do-everything' mood you get with the F-16. The Mirage is out of my jurisdiction. I'm not a Dassult fan, but my opinion is it wouldn't do much due to cost-ineffecience. Still, if you want to factor out cash, then it is a pretty good fighter.

The MiG-29 (thanks, marshal for the info here ;D) has two engines. An advantage over the single-engined fighters listed here. It also has a more lethal arsenal, among other things... Still, it might do some good to put a vote. two of these aircraft aren't in my forte, so i can only give you a vague idea that for air superiority, you might want to use the MiG-29, if you have the massive budget, the Mirage, if you're operating in a small radius on a tight budget, the JAS-39, and if you don't come under any of these categories, try the F-16. If none of these work you should take a look at the skunk work catalogue. Or try the Tu-160 or B-1B if you just want a big punch.
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Offline osuorsa

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Re: F-16 C/D v/s MIRAGE 2000-5 v/s GRIPEN v/s MIG-29
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2007, 03:30:19 AM »
Gripen maneuvres in a deifferent gategory when comparing to the others...Thanks to its advanced canard -delta wing conficuration, big slats and effective FCS.

The thing why many people disrespect the Mirage 2000 is because they dont know much about it. Actually the latest variants, of course, the Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2/ 2000-9, are extremely good planes and can be seen in the same category with the most modern Vipers, the F-16E/F. The modern Mirages have many technologies borrowed from the Rafale. Avionics and EWS systems are proudlycomparable with the Rafale and any other 4+ gen fighters. It has one of the best MRAAM missiles, the Matra MICA etc.

Offline Raptor

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Re: F-16 C/D v/s MIRAGE 2000-5 v/s GRIPEN v/s MIG-29
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2007, 02:43:44 PM »
Yes, Saab did an excellent job with all its fighters, most of all the Gripen.

The mirage and the viper would be totally different categories, if i'm not wrong? Mirage 2000s cost a lot, though, and i wouldn't want to pay for something that's said to have poor low-alt. handling.

Sure the avionics, missiles, etc. are good. France just places too much cost on its fighters.
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Re: F-16 C/D v/s MIRAGE 2000-5 v/s GRIPEN v/s MIG-29
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2007, 01:24:03 AM »
The mirage and the viper would be totally different categories, if i'm not wrong?

Well, why do you think that?
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Offline Raptor

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Re: F-16 C/D v/s MIRAGE 2000-5 v/s GRIPEN v/s MIG-29
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2007, 03:02:41 AM »
The '16 is designed to be quite the workhorse, while evidently the Mirage is pretty much the most re-defined over and over again fighter. Hm sounds like the Falcon. I still would classify them differently, though. One is used anywhere and everywhere. The goverment goes, "oh we need something here." and the reply is "f-16
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Re: F-16 C/D v/s MIRAGE 2000-5 v/s GRIPEN v/s MIG-29
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2007, 05:22:40 PM »
How would you classify them then?

That's a US reply. "We need something quite the same as a F-16 here" and the French reply is "mirage 2000"... I think it's pretty much the same.

The F-16 was designed as a "light" defense fighter, it has evolved to become a workhorse. Pretty much the same for the Mirage 2000 and the MiG-29. Only the Gripen was designed as a true multi-role aircraft from the start, so that would be the odd one out...
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