Libya

[Viggen]

Hey guys, i just saw a video on that MiG-23, seconds before we see 2 jets in formation flying the zone, and some minutes later we see France saying they have fighter on the area.

Now Viggen says the Rafale were flying in Anti-Air configuration, so, do you see where i´m trying to get? Do you think the Rafale might have shot down a rebel aircraft thinking it was a enemy? After IFF can´t tell the difference between a rebel and a Gaddaffi fighter.

I dont believe so. The MIG was downed early this morning. Before the last meeting and the press conference held by the French president.  However i dont think the MIG was shot down by a missile. Either AA-gun or a turbine failure. 

[SukhoiLover]

Hey guys, i just saw a video on that MiG-23, seconds before we see 2 jets in formation flying the zone, and some minutes later we see France saying they have fighter on the area.

Now Viggen says the Rafale were flying in Anti-Air configuration, so, do you see where i´m trying to get? Do you think the Rafale might have shot down a rebel aircraft thinking it was a enemy? After IFF can´t tell the difference between a rebel and a Gaddaffi fighter.

I dont believe so. The MIG was downed early this morning. Before the last meeting and the press conference held by the French president.  However i dont think the MIG was shot down by a missile. Either AA-gun or a turbine failure. 

It looks like that, but then remains the question, who did those two fighter belong to?

[Webmaster]

Indeed, French planes came later. 

It looks like that, but then remains the question, who did those two fighter belong to?

Bit hard to answer, because we haven't seen the report you saw. Got a link?

But I'm reading that Libyan fighters were in the area, which may explain why it went up there.

Either AA-gun or a turbine failure.

Well, that's what I thought AA and then turbine failure, until I saw this (second) missile going for the plume of fire/smoke after the initial explosion in one video. But it wasn't like a AAM, maybe SA-7 fired too late?

[SukhoiLover]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-pv2Aiqzk0

0:24 Two fighter and in the opposite side the 23 going down

[Webmaster]

Are you sure, I can't really tell... look at the movement of the first one... it's just birds?

[SukhoiLover]

Are you sure, I can't really tell... look at the movement of the first one... it's just birds?

Its possible, it does seem the 1st one makes a hard bank to the left, didn´t notice it at first:S

By the way, did the pilot survive?

[Viggen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-pv2Aiqzk0

0:24 Two fighter and in the opposite side the 23 going down

Those are birds. 100% sure of that. I had not seen this footage before. But after looking at the sequence a couple of times, i believe both are birds. The second smoke trail have to be from the missile. Runs diagonally from the aircraft,  barley visible.

This leads me to think that rebels shot their own plane down with one of those dual SA-7 mounts we seen placed on the back of trucks.

[Viggen]

Are you sure, I can't really tell... look at the movement of the first one... it's just birds?

Its possible, it does seem the 1st one makes a hard bank to the left, didn´t notice it at first:S

By the way, did the pilot survive?

Yes, the pilot ejected safely. But it was not until the last moment, right before the jet hits the ground. (From what i´ve seen on other footage.)

[Viggen]

Just confirmed that British Tornados are taking part tonight, firing Storm Shadow missiles.

[Webmaster]

Hmm, he ejected, but safely? Some rebel said he was killed.

About the (second) missile, I don't have a clue, maybe something a bit newer than SA-7, as I expected to see more smoke. But it does appear to come from below.

Looked at some more footage, at wider angle even, but about same direction, nothing else visible except the MiG-23. Also just the sound of one jet engine, then silence, then boom. Nothing more.

Anyways, first package 4x Rafale Air and 2x Recce. Second package, the one of the bombing, 2x M2000D with possibly GBU-12, 2x M2000-5 Air, 2x Rafale with AASM. So it's still not certain which dropped the first bombs here afaik.

Spanish Hornets, Canadian Hornets, Danish F-16s, Italian Tornado (I believe IDS, but ECR (SEAD) are ready to deploy) on request, UK Tornado GR.4, USAFE F-15E arrived. Possibly latter two types went straight in with weapons.

Plus at least 2x E-3, 7x KC-135, 1x EC-130, 1x CP-3, 1x Nimrod R.1 (set for early retirement), 1x Sentinel R.1 (set for cancellation) over Med. Some UK tankers as well and all the transports for the deployments.

Italian carrier with AV-8B underway (they're AMRAAM equipped btw, unlike USMC) .

Not sure if Greek F-16s + Erieye need to deploy to Italy too.

There's already more aircraft involved than Libya has, I believe, depending on how you count.

[Webmaster]

Add USAF KC-10, plus USAFE F-16CJ (SEAD, but not necessarily).

[Viggen]

Hmm, he ejected, but safely? Some rebel said he was killed.

About the (second) missile, I don't have a clue, maybe something a bit newer than SA-7, as I expected to see more smoke. But it does appear to come from below.

Looked at some more footage, at wider angle even, but about same direction, nothing else visible except the MiG-23. Also just the sound of one jet engine, then silence, then boom. Nothing more.

CNN said the pilot ejected safely and was ok. BBC said that the pilot ejected, but too late. No photos of the pilot or an interview have surfaced so, i believe you and BBC are correct.

That last footage you mentioned. That is the one i have been seeing. Thats why i first though AA-Gun or some sort of failure. The clip SU-Lover posted, tells me a different story. However i can always look at it frame by frame later today, and see if anything is showing. (Take captures of the interesting bits).