MILAVIA Forum - Military Aviation Discussion Forum

Author Topic: Su-30MKI and the threat from the Su-35S  (Read 14658 times)

Offline indochina

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Su-30MKI and the threat from the Su-35S
« on: March 30, 2013, 07:01:50 PM »
As we know, the Russians prepared to sell China the Su-35.I'm guessing that they crave technology radar, engines and electronics as well as the ability to reduce the RCS of the Su-35.

Su-30MKI-



Maximum internal fuel - 9,640kgs
Max Range(without mid-air refueling) - 3000kms
Max ceiling - 17.3km
Max Speed - Mach 1.9
Canards - Yes
Crew - 2
Max Afterburner Thrust - 12500kgf, Emergency Thrust - 12800kgf
External Fuel Tanks - No
Composites - Not in significant quantity.
Empty Weight - unknown. Estimated to be around 18400kgs.
Airframe life - 3,000hrs or 15 years(at 200 hours flight time each year)
Internal Jammer - No
RCS - unofficial estimate 11.5m2
Airbrake - Yes
Supercruise- No


Su-35S-



Maximum internal fuel - 11,500kgs
Max Range(without mid-air refueling, without external fuel tanks) - 3600kms
Max ceiling - 18km
Max Speed - Mach 2.25
Canards - No (since radar isn't heavy)
Crew - 1
Max Afterburner Thrust - 14500kgf(gives a massive boost to TWR compared to Su-30MKI)
External Fuel Tanks - Yes (can carry 2 drop tanks of 1400kgs fuel in each of them)
Composites - Yes. Extensive use of Titanium Alloys.
Empty Weight - Unknown. Estimated to be around 18800kgs.
Airframe life - 6,000hrs or 30 years(at 200 hours flight time each year)
Internal Jammer - Yes
RCS - unofficial estimate between 1-3m2
Airbrake - No. Powerful modified rudders act as Airbrakes.
Supercruise - Yes

Radar-
This deserves a separate mention. Because this is where the difference is at its max.
Su-30MKI has a N-011M BARS Radar
Transmitter peak power - 5kw
Transmitter average power - 1.2kw
Can Track- 15 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 140 km(Upgraded Radar with upgraded transmitter power, if any in service, its range is unknown.)

Su-35S has N-035 IRBIS-E. The most powerful Fighter Plane mounted X Band radar in the world. Specs are as follows.
Transmitter peak power - 20kw
Transmitter average power - 5kw
Can Track - 30 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 8 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 426 km
Max Detection for 3 sqm RCS - 375 km
Max Detection for 1 sqm RCS - 285 km
Max Detection for 0.01 sqm RCS - 90 km


DATA FROM OFFICIAL SUKHOI and NIIP WEBSITES. Not Wikipedia!

Armed-

Su-35S

1 × 30 mm GSh-30 cannon with 150 rounds
2 × wingtip pylons for air-to-air missile R-73 (AA-11 "Archer") or ECM equipment
12 × wing pylons and close to 8,000 kg (17,630 lb) of weapons, including:
Air-to-air missile
AA-12 Adder (R-77)
AA-11 Archer (R-73)
AA-10 Alamo (R-27)
And may be armed by china
PL-8/9/10/12
Air-to-ground missiles and sea
AS-17 Krypton (Kh-31)
AS-16 Kickback (Kh-15)
AS-10 Karen (Kh-25ML)
AS-14 Kedge (Kh-29)
AS-15 Kent (Kh-55)
AS-13 Kingbolt (Kh-59)
bomb
KAB-500L
KAB-1500 laser guided bombs / TV
FAB-100/250/500/750/1000

Su-30MKI

fireworks

1 serving GSh-301 30 mm, 150 rounds

Air-to-air missiles:

6 × R-27R/AA-10A/Astra [21], medium-range missiles, radar-guided semi-automatic, range 80 km.
6 × R-27T (AA-10B), medium-range missiles probe pink ngoao, 70 km
2 × R-27P (AA-10C), long-range missiles, radar detectors, passive
10 × R-77 (AA-12), medium-range missiles active radar detector, 100 km
6 × R-73 (AA-11) short-range AAM, 30 km

Air-to-surface missiles:

2 × Kh-59ME, radio guided missile, 115 km
2 × Kh-59MK, laser guided missile, 130 km
4 × Kh-35 anti-ship missiles, 130 km
3 × PJ-10 Bramhos, supersonic cruise missiles, 300 km
6 × Kh-31P / A, anti-radar missiles, 70 km
6 × Kh-29T / L laser-guided missile, 30 km
4 × S-8 rockets (80 guided rockets not)
4 × S-13 rockets (20 guided rockets not)

Bom:

6 × KAB-500L laser-guided bombs
3 × KAB-1500L laser guided bombs
8 × FAB-500T
28 × OFAB-250-270
32 × OFAB-100-120
8 × RBK-500 cluster bombs


Both Su-35S and Su-30MKI aircraft are the super-maneuverability, with technological security RCS almost similar (Su-30MKI use the opto-electronic system of Europe, only to attack the land), I think we will have duel between Su-30MKI and the Su-35S (export version for China)

I think the Chinese Su-35, if any, will be used as the enemy assumes (referring to Su-30MKI), so the border if there is a conflict if the Su-30MKI can face thewith Su-35S (export version definitely will have reduced features, such as old AL-41F, no TVC2D/3D, no radar Irbis-E, no RAM tech, no OLS-35M IRST, no L370-5 DIRCM , no MSP-418K DRFM) and the entire weapon old Russian (R-27/73/77) or new China's efficiency unverified (PL-8/9/10/12).

I think winning will depend on the level of the pilot and the number of aircraft that side more dominant  8)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 07:34:06 PM by indochina »

Offline shawn a

  • Hero of Flight
  • ******
  • Posts: 898
  • Country: us
Re: Su-30MKI and the threat from the Su-35S
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2013, 06:23:59 PM »
YEEEHAA!
 Thanks for all that information, indochina. I love to see that kind of comparison of specifications!
Russia and Sukhoi seem to have forgotten that J-11B fiasco, and I'm sure it will happen again. China has developed into the world's biggest, most aggressive and arrogant kleptocracy.
In other words-- Hey,Russia and Sukhoi--BOHICA!

Offline indochina

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Su-30MKI and the threat from the Su-35S
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2013, 12:33:34 PM »
YEEEHAA!
 Thanks for all that information, indochina. I love to see that kind of comparison of specifications!
Russia and Sukhoi seem to have forgotten that J-11B fiasco, and I'm sure it will happen again. China has developed into the world's biggest, most aggressive and arrogant kleptocracy.
In other words-- Hey,Russia and Sukhoi--BOHICA!

So according to you Su-30MKI or the Su-35S will win (no AWACS support)  8)

Offline shawn a

  • Hero of Flight
  • ******
  • Posts: 898
  • Country: us
Re: Su-30MKI and the threat from the Su-35S
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2013, 08:20:21 PM »
Well, if this is a paper exercise, then the -35S would "win", but in the fog bank of war, anything could happen. If the -35S is in the same position as the F-22 (superior aircraft vs. superior numbers of inferior aircraft), then the "Sturmvogel Effect" will occur, the superior aircraft being overwhelmed by large numbers of inferior aircraft. Something the Neville Chamberlain of our country (the idiot Robert Gates) had failed to recall.
Shawn A.

Offline Webmaster

  • MILAVIA Webmaster
  • Administrator
  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 2843
  • Country: nl
Re: Su-30MKI and the threat from the Su-35S
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2013, 07:03:14 AM »
Paper exercise... taking into account everything you say, still the Su-35 (if any, there's no contract) because I do think when a deal is reached the export restriction will only concern some radar modes and defensive equipment, I can't see it without the Irbis radar and new engines. All the improvements were intended to make the Flanker be able to compete on the fighter market again and survivable on the battlefield, including China, China which clearly had its marks already set higher than what futher Su-30MKK development could offer. So China won't buy it without the key systems and weapons. It can build an improved Flanker on its own. The Irbis looks really amazing, while I've always had my doubts about the Bars being as good as people like to think.

Paper exercise 2... they will both have AWACS, the Su-35 will be "stuck" patrolling the China Sea, and it's now 2x J-10 for every Su-30MKI... and half of the Su-30MKIs is escort for the other half, which are equipped for a bombing mission. Clear victory because Su-30MKI can handle two J-10s each, or still trouble for the Su-30MKI?
  • Interests: Su-15, Su-27, Tu-22, Tornado, RNLAF
Niels Hillebrand
MILAVIA Webmaster

 



AVIATION TOP 100 - www.avitop.com click to vote for MILAVIA