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Author Topic: US vs Libya  (Read 13481 times)

Offline Viggen

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US vs Libya
« on: November 12, 2006, 03:15:04 AM »
Do you guys remember when two US F14´s engaged  Libyan fighters over the mediterranian?
Remember there was a short b/w movie clip from the guncam or cockpitcam shown on tv. Im not going to talk about if it was right or wrong.  ;D

But i do wonder what really  happend? (i could probably just google, but i hope i can start some sort of discussion from this nice memory). Go F14´s!!!  8)
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Offline Gripen

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Re: US vs Libya
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2006, 04:14:35 AM »
i thought it was the Iranians that the USN hit, or was that something different??

Valiant1

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Re: US vs Libya
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2006, 06:47:25 PM »
Viggen, there were 2 incidents w/F-14's against Libyan fighters. 

In 1981, Kaddafi, leader of Libya, extended the territorial claims over the Mediterannean Sea to 12 miles intes of the internationally accepted 2 miles.  The US decided to challenge that claim.  US carrier battle groups would operate close to that claim and US Nvy fighters often entered the Libyan territorial waters.  They would be tracked by Libyan radar and Liby fighters were launched to intercept, but would disengage before coming too close.  On August 19, 1981, to F-14A's from VF-41 were flying CAP from the USS Nimitz, conducting a missile excercise.  A patrolling E-2 Hawkeye made radar contact w/2 Libyan Su-22 Fitters headed for the 2 Tomcats.  As they closed in on the Tomcats, the lead Su-22 fired an AA-2 Atoll AA missile.  The missile failed, and according to US policy, "if fired upon, fire back".  The Tomcats were cleared to engage.  The lead F-14 pursued the Su-22 wingman, the other F-14 pursued the lead Su-22.  Soon thereafter, when the Su-22 turned clear of the sun of the lead F-14, the pilot got a lock-on with an AIM-9 and  blew him out of the sky. The other F-14 also used an AIM-9 to destroy the lead Su-22. 

On January 4,1989 2 F-14A's from VF-32 from the USS John F. Kennedy were flying a CAP when a pair of Libyan Mig-23 Floggers were detected heading towards them.  The F-14s already had a radar lock on the bogeys.  It's common procedure under such circumstances to lock the powerful AWG-9 radar on the incoming Libyan fighters, to give them the possibility to turn around and head back home.  Usually this procedure was impressive enough to drive the Libyans back since the radar warning tone resulting from an armed F-14's radar was fearsome enough.  But this time, it didn't work.  This was the 2nd time US Navy Tomcats were to engage Libyan fighters.  During the 8 minutes of engagement, the Migs kept turning in on the Tomcats to maintain a firing solution for their missiles.  As later examination of F-14 still photography resolved, the Mig-23's were armed with the AA-7 Apex missiles.  After several evasive maneuvers by the Tomcats and aggressive maneuvers by the Floggers, the incoming pair of Mig-23's were declared hostile and the Tomcats were cleared to engage.  The lead Tomcat fired an unsuccessful AIM-7 Sparrow, while the second Tomcat's AIM-7 found its mark and destroyed one Flogger.  Then, the lead Tomcat fired an AIM-9, which exploded in the Flogger's tailpipes and destroyed it.

I hope this helps you out.  GO F-14's FOREVER!!!!
 

Offline Viggen

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Re: US vs Libya
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2006, 10:38:58 PM »
Thanks Valiant1, i never knew about that second incident. No wonder i was confused about this.   :)

Great stuff, wonder why they have not done a documentary of these incidents. All i know is that Kadaffi did this just to pi** off the Americans. Kind of crazy to put Su-22´s against F-14´s, what was he thinking.. he he!
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Valiant1

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Re: US vs Libya
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2006, 11:01:14 PM »
Hey Viggen,  I also heard that during the first Gulf War, the F-14's role as an air superiority fighter was "played down" because the US Air Force wanted the F-15 Eagle to control the skies.  I know the Big Cat is more than capable of tangling with the Big Bird, but my personal feeling on that was the US Air Force just wanted to show off, particularly to the Russians, what the Eagle was capable of doing to their Migs. 

I'm sure the Cat would have no problems doing the same, especially with the more powerful radar, the Cat would be able to track 6 targets and shoot them  all down from 100 miles away and if they have to dance with the Migs, the Cats were highly maneuverable and had a great thrust-to-weight ratio.

It's unfortunate that even the US military has to play politics for their own selfish motives.  I firmly believe the Tomcat would have proven to be an excellent, which it already was, dogfighter during the Gulf War.

Oh, by the way, Viggen, I got a few military mags I got from eBay and a couple of mags dedicated to the Viggen and Gripen.  Very fascinating jet fighters your country has built.  Like I said, the US should buy the Gripens. 


Offline Gripen

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Re: US vs Libya
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2006, 03:26:47 AM »
I've been saying for how long that the Gripen is good??????????

???????????????????????????????????????????????????

Offline Viggen

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Re: US vs Libya
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2006, 03:38:10 AM »
Would be cool to see US Gripens. But i bet that somewhere in the Nevada desert there is one standing, for tests and evaluation. Probably not beacuse they want to buy a few, but to learn more about it. The engine is american, built by Volvo here under license. So being able to buy this  "must have part",  there is probably some secret agrement behind the curtains.  ;D

Im not much for conspiracy and that kind of stuff. But i know that many cards are dealt under the table. Mostly because as long its technology is secret, a weapon is unbeatable. That is, for the enemy  and not the allies. Hope you understand what im trying to say...The time is 03.35 am, so my mind does not work very well at the moment.  ;D
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Valiant1

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Re: US vs Libya
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2006, 02:35:34 PM »
You're so right about many cards being dealt under the table...I'm sure the USAF has a Gripen for evaluation. 

Offline Webmaster

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Re: US vs Libya
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2006, 07:53:08 PM »
I am not sure about that, but Swedish Gripens participated in Cope Thunder, and I bet a lot of information and rides were exchanged. I think it is rather curious why Sweden participated in the Alaskan exercise, more aimed at the pacific theatre, instead of some of the other great exercises elsewhere...? Matter of slots? Or did the US want to know more about it now, before it enters service with more non-NATO nations?

I have to add though, that again, we are all over the place with the discussion. It starts out about Libya and Tomcats and now we're onto Gripens again. Let's try to stick to the topic subject in future pls.
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Valiant1

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Re: US vs Libya
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2006, 10:30:54 PM »
Ok...well, what if the Libyans decide to purchase Gripens?  Then what?

Offline Gripen

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Re: US vs Libya
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2006, 02:34:48 AM »
I dont think that Sweden would sell them...

Offline Viggen

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Re: US vs Libya
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2006, 03:48:36 AM »
I dont think that Sweden would sell them...

Nope, they would probaly tell them to ask US if they have any Tomcats for sale...  ;)
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