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Author Topic: Help needed!!! - involving crash research  (Read 5467 times)

Offline Ramon

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Help needed!!! - involving crash research
« on: May 20, 2012, 12:59:43 PM »
Hello all,

Maybe a shot in the dark, but here we go...
I'm currently busy with "investigating" a crash during the second
World War over my home town Heerlen, in the south of the Netherlands.

So far I have the following information:
On 19-November-1944 two P-47D's crashed, involving pilots 1st Fl A.J. Garner
and 1st Fl L. Burg, flying for the 373 FG / 412 FS. All this information is taken
from a recently released list by the Dutch Defense.

I'm interested in the following:
1) Did both crashes happened separately, or are both involved in the same incident.
2) Did both pilots bail out, and became POW?, as I can't find them in all possible KIA en MIA lists.
3) What was the cause of the crash, flak?, enemy fighters?, mechanical issues?, fuel starvation?
4) And maybe the million dollar question, what was the location of the crash site?

Any help would be highly appreciated.
Kind Regards, Ramon
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Offline Webmaster

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Re: Help needed!!! - involving crash research
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2012, 09:01:47 PM »
At the time Heerlen was already liberated and under control of the 9th Army up to the Roer. It had XIII Corps division command post there, with 7th Armored Division and also some infantry division and other brigades. They were there recouperating from the battle at De Peel, and preparing for the planned crossing of the Roer. But then the 7th Armored Division was sent south for the December counteroffensive in the Ardennes at St. Vith.

My point is, they crashed/crashlanded near concentrated allied forces, not behind enemy lines. There's no missing airmen record when they are not missing, right? So that answers 2.

If you look at other P-47D records of that day, it looks there were quite some losses, which did result in missing airmen reports. Other squadrons though. There's a Luftwaffe P-47 claim by JG2 near Düren, but it might as well be some of the others. Aachen was pretty flak heavy. And I think they also did a lot of railway runs near Düsseldorf, which was heavily defended.

I found out that 373FG/412FS was flying from Le Culot (Beauvechain), at least earlier that month. Also there's a taxi accident on Nov 4, 1944, there with "Lloyd B Burg" as pilot. See: http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/AARmonthly/Nov1944O.htm. Probably same pilot at "L. Burg", whether it's also the same aircraft... who knows.

Good luck, I think they made it back then since you can't find them on KIA lists. P-47 wasn't too bad to crashland, right?
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Offline Ramon

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Re: Help needed!!! - involving crash research
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2012, 11:28:00 AM »
Hey Niels,

Thanks for the info, is much appreciated.
The MIA/KIA was used by me, to implicate I can't find anything of them  :D

The lead you gave me with the taxi incident is the information I was searching
for. However weeks before the presumed crash at Heerlen. But another lead
I can search for. I'm also 99% convinced they both made it out, and back to
the States, however would I love to find out more of both accidents/incidents.
Especially how, and on what location both aircraft came down. Also interesting
is that both aircraft came down in the same city.

The P-47 was a flying tank, so crash landing would not be a "big" problem, I hope.

Thanks for now Niels.
Regards, Ramon
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