64th Anniversary of the Hiroshima bombing

[Gripen]

Theres never a justification for genocide, such as the Jewish Holocaust, the Rwanda genocide, Cambodia etc etc.

[valkyrian]

Well, i must say that the analysis Gripen presented to us was very enlighting. So, they wanted to reduce the casualties right?

Then why didn't the drop the bomb on an island full of japanese soldiers? the impact would have been the same. for many square miles around the bombed area, all the japs would have been vaporized.

Weby, you spoke my mind.

[F-111 C/C]

The location of the the bombs was considered a Strategic target as opposed to a Tactical target where only military assets are targeted. Strategic targets are always messy and controvertial but a 'neccessary evil' in winning a war. If more Strategic targets were allowed in Vietnam we wouldn't have lost. The same goes for Iraq and Afghanistan. The ROE dictate 'Military' targets only and fire only when fired upon. That is fighting a war with both hands tied.

[AVIATOR]

Not to mention the second bomb was totally unnecessary.

Yeah well lets talk about the third bomb.

There was a lot of further preparation and much radio traffic generated on Tinian in the second week of August. The U.S. Army Strategic Air Forces wanted the third bomb to be dropped on Tokyo as even after two bombs and a week later the Japanese government was still stalling on agreeing to the United Nations surrender terms.  Back came a message, presumably from Hap Arnold, saying that the decision had already been made that the target would be Sapporo in the northern island of Hokkaido.

In Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, May-June 1998, Stanley Goldberg notes that on the morning of August 10, 1945, Robert Bacher of the Environmental Physics Division of Los Alamos National Laboratory was supervising the loading of a plutonium core onto a truck [the core casing and other "works" were already on Tinian ] and was to be flown to San Francisco, thence to Tinian. .

Robert Oppenheimer then appeared and told Balcher to stop loading the core until the explicit order from President Truman arrived. Subsequently it was never issued as Hirohito gave a recorded radio address to the nation on August 15. In the radio address, called the Gyokuon-hōsō (Jewel Voice Broadcast), he read the Imperial Prescript on surrender, announcing to the Japanese populace the surrender of Japan.

If I had been born in another place and in another time, I'd have dropped the third bomb myself right up the Emperor's honourable arse.
All our prisoners of war and the peoples of the countries occupied by the Japanese that were being tortured to death, starved to death and beheaded could have taken comfort from this.

I would also say that this subject can be best dealt with by older Australians and Americans and not young Europeans viewing it as some sort history assignment with the modern socialist ideals of today, who have no idea of the barbarism of the Japanese at that time that resulted in the decision to use such weapons against them.
      Aviator.

[Gripen]

Not to mention the second bomb was totally unnecessary.

Yeah well lets talk about the third bomb.

There was a lot of further preparation and much radio traffic generated on Tinian in the second week of August. The U.S. Army Strategic Air Forces wanted the third bomb to be dropped on Tokyo as even after two bombs and a week later the Japanese government was still stalling on agreeing to the United Nations surrender terms.  Back came a message, presumably from Hap Arnold, saying that the decision had already been made that the target would be Sapporo in the northern island of Hokkaido.

In Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, May-June 1998, Stanley Goldberg notes that on the morning of August 10, 1945, Robert Bacher of the Environmental Physics Division of Los Alamos National Laboratory was supervising the loading of a plutonium core onto a truck [the core casing and other "works" were already on Tinian ] and was to be flown to San Francisco, thence to Tinian. .

Robert Oppenheimer then appeared and told Balcher to stop loading the core until the explicit order from President Truman arrived. Subsequently it was never issued as Hirohito gave a recorded radio address to the nation on August 15. In the radio address, called the Gyokuon-hōsō (Jewel Voice Broadcast), he read the Imperial Prescript on surrender, announcing to the Japanese populace the surrender of Japan.

If I had been born in another place and in another time, I'd have dropped the third bomb myself right up the Emperor's honourable arse.
All our prisoners of war and the peoples of the countries occupied by the Japanese that were being tortured to death, starved to death and beheaded could have taken comfort from this.

I would also say that this subject can be best dealt with by older Australians and Americans and not young Europeans viewing it as some sort history assignment with the modern socialist ideals of today, who have no idea of the barbarism of the Japanese at that time that resulted in the decision to use such weapons against them.
      Aviator.

KUDOS!!

I was thinking the other day that its only the European's that think the A-bombs were immoral and wrong and blah, yet the Aussies and Americans who actually fought the Japanese supported the A-bombs

KUDOS AVIATOR!!

[F-111 C/C]

Cheers Mate!!!

[Webmaster]

I'm stunned by your comment Aviator, and the ability you think you have to judge my or valkyrian's knowledge of history on the basis of a few comments made.

I could have pointed Gripen to what some high ranked Americans who did actually fight the Japanese have said about the bomb, but that makes it a history assignment, and apparently as I am just a young European with modern socialist ideals of today, thus not allowed to comment on historical events, let alone share my views.

Which makes me wonder, what is the purpose of having a discussion forum, if different views are not respected often on the basis of nationality (not just this, but also the comments in other posts of you two). What will be left to discuss if you can only comment on history that you actually witnessed or have been part in or wars in which your country was heavily involved in (I say heavily because the Dutch did also fight the Japanese). And what's the purpose of discussing history, if we can't review it in light of modern ideas.

Aviator, you told me to reply more often to your posts, but let me tell you, they will all be from a young European with modern ideals reviewing history and making judgements on the basis of history and facts without hands-on experience. So why would I post any reply for that matter if you don't appreciate it anyway?

Also, you just alienated all other young Europeans on the forum here, who might wanted to post their opinion too, and maybe theirs would have been more to your liking.

Gripen, maybe the reason you hear these kind of views from Europeans more often is because there is no national taboo on these subjects. But have you polled the population of each country in Europe, or are you now just basing it on that you have two Europeans here (from very different countries) who question it. I am sure there's a good proportion in Europe that would also support it. And don't forget, the poll shows 22% of Americans do not support it, and more than a quarter of 55 and older...

[Gripen]

22% don't support it..

What about the other 88%?

OK, Ill apologise to the Dutch, I forgot about ABDACOM.

[AVIATOR]

In fact the military and civilian Dutch in Indonesia got it worse from the Japanese than any other Europeans in any other theatre.
The men were mostly executed and the women were all rounded up and sent to the military as prostitutes or so called 'comfort women'.
In contrast to this, Australian and British women ex pats were at least given the choice in return for better conditions. Our Australian nurses however were told to wade into the surf holding hands and were machine gunned.
One survived to tell. Sister Vivian Bullwinkle.

I'd like to explain why there was only three days between the 1st and 2nd bombs.
The USAF guys back then in '45 knew of such atrocities and were worried that the Japanese might have surrendered before they could do it. As it was, they were stopped another six days later from delivering number three.

[shawn a]

I have a LOT of opinions on this, but since this thread has not been posted in for over 90 days, I'll just wait 'till next August when the whole "Mea Culpa" B.S. is brought up once again.