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Author Topic: 25 years ago  (Read 25985 times)

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: 25 years ago
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2007, 01:15:38 PM »
hmmm! How I wish I could speak :-X
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Offline Webmaster

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Re: 25 years ago
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2007, 05:42:46 PM »

The only thing we can do is honor those who died in battle. 


Well to step away from the grim aspects and avoid politics, we can also look what it meant on technological level and lessons learned. The Sea Harrier proved itself, the newer version of the AIM-9 Sidewinder proved lethal, the Exocet anti-missile proved itself and also the Pucara, which is still an important asset for CAS/COIN. Not to mention the experience of using aerial tankers to extend the range of bombers. The Brits probably also learned from that blue-on-blue SAM engagement.
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Offline Globetrotter

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Re: 25 years ago
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2007, 07:26:01 PM »
Thanks Webmaster to find out a way to skip politics, as I wouldn0t have resisted much...

Ok, about the statement of  "The Sea Harrier proved itself" I am afraid I can't fully agree with you, because each of the combats that happened were in the envelope of flight that was favourable to that airplane. I am sure that if the combats were in mid to high altitudes, it would have been different, even though we all now that the Mirage III is not a dogfighter. So this shows that British pilots were better trained than Argentines, cause they dragged their enemies to where they had vantages.

I will continue later, cause there is a lot to talk about ;D
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Offline Globetrotter

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Re: 25 years ago
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2007, 10:13:15 PM »
So... yes, the AIM-9 "lima" was excellent and did its job well, or at least light years from the French Matra 550, that had to be fired directly from behind.

The exocet was overwhelming, and even when Argentina suffered from a sabotagge the French did, while their technicians were in Arg, before departing because of the war. This is not a theory, it was confirmed by French minister of something...

Well, what can I say about Pucara, it is one of my idols ;D, kidding
But seriously, that aircraft proved that appart from being very good at CAS/COIN it is also a very good chpper haunter.

I haven't heard of blue-on-blue, or at least not with that name... could you explain what is it?
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Re: 25 years ago
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2007, 05:25:50 PM »
Quote
The exocet was overwhelming, and even when Argentina suffered from a sabotagge the French did, while their technicians were in Arg, before departing because of the war. This is not a theory, it was confirmed by French minister of something...
I didn't know that, I guess UK put some pressure on France.  ;)

Quote
that aircraft proved that appart from being very good at CAS/COIN it is also a very good chpper haunter.
Yep, slow, low, agile and four guns. Not sure how it would look up again a Sidewinder equipped Cobra or Apache though. In the last AFM, there's was an article on a recent exercise, combining Hughes 500 light helicopters with the Pucara in the CSAR mission. Apparently a good combo and a role which might have been given to another helicopter type, if it wasn't for the Pucara's good record.
Do you know how many were deployed in the conflict?

Quote
I haven't heard of blue-on-blue, or at least not with that name... could you explain what is it?
Friendly fire (fratricide), sorry maybe blue-on-blue is a term used only in case of coalition friendly fire??

HMS Cardiff shot down a Gazelle helicopter of the British Army Air Corps. I was just checking out which ship was involved, and then I also read that a UK SBS (Special Boat Service) team found themselves in fire-fight with a SAS patrol, 1 killed, and two Army companies from the same Battalion engaged eachother for an hour, 8 killed. I know that from at least the Gazalle/Cardiff incident lessons were learned and doctrine changes implemented.

NOTE: Discussing Falklands here, so don't go off-topic talking about Iraq's blue-on-blue incidents or anything.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2007, 05:42:53 PM by Webmaster »
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Offline Gripen

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Re: 25 years ago
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2007, 05:13:43 AM »
And the war also stopped the British from selling one of their carriers, and it was the last conflict were British Bombers (Vulcan) flew combat missions, well, purpose built bombers, not like the Torando and Jaguar....

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: 25 years ago
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2007, 06:24:36 PM »
I have been searching, but the number of Pucaras I can estimate is more or less 100. 25 of them were lost, in combat or ground attacks, damaged by bombs.

Quote
Yep, slow, low, agile and four guns

Four machineguns and two cannons ;)

I'll look for some low level flying photos for you :D
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Offline Globetrotter

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Re: 25 years ago
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2007, 01:42:07 AM »
Some Argentine people believe that the war was something that was lost before beggining, now matter what we did.

Here is why:

Suppouse that luckily, we manage to win the war over the South Atlantic. Then the Brits get bored of it, and, with the Vulcnas they had over there, thanks to our brothers Brazilians, the fire one or two Blue Steels (Nuclear Misiles) to Buenos Aires, Capital of Argentina, thus killing about 14 million people, from there, and some other milions from arround the region. The war would be over, and they would have won?

Very difficult to disscus....
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Offline Gripen

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Re: 25 years ago
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2007, 08:23:54 AM »
Then the Argentines would turn to Sovs, the US would get the shits big time and attack the Sovs. World War 4!

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: 25 years ago
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2007, 06:21:41 PM »
That means that you think I am telling bullsh...???!! :o
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Offline Gripen

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Re: 25 years ago
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2007, 03:47:31 AM »
nope, thats what the Cubans did. It happens. Soviet Russia always chose people because they knew it would annoy america.. i believe you

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Re: 25 years ago
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2007, 03:11:56 AM »
Well, don't think the UK would deploy nuclear weapons that easily. Maybe after huge loss of life, or at least prospects of huge loss of life. No, they would maybe have invaded Argentina, with such a coastline and losses in the war, British would have invaded a lot of the country to force a surrender of the islands. The US never deployed nuclear weapons in their cold war "regional conflicts", not did the Soviet, I think compared to these parties the UK was more rational.

I tend to agree it was a lost war, or at least a very short sighted one. There was a tiny chance of the UK having difficult deploying troops such a long way from home, and would have given up the islands to avoid conflict... but considering the UK's government, the Argentine government made a bad judgement call. I think it didn't help Argentina to get the islands back at all, without the war, maybe something would have been settled by now, but now the UK has fought for it so recently... not likely. But I think Argentina has more pressing concerns now than a couple of Islands.

Now let's go back to the facts, instead of this hypothetical/political talk.

About the Vulcans, they were put into action largely as a deterrent, in the same way Lybia and Iraq did with their Tu-22s. Making a statement. Conventional bombing, although not very effective with these bombers, sends the message that they are in theatre and mean business.
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