MILAVIA Forum - Military Aviation Discussion Forum

Author Topic: Georgia 'under attack' as Russian tanks roll in  (Read 20848 times)

Offline tigershark

  • News Editor
  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 2025
Re: Georgia 'under attack' as Russian tanks roll in
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2008, 01:19:19 PM »
The tanks were Russian T-72Bs and T-72BMs.  A tanker friends help me he also pointed out that a T-84 is a Ukrainian built tank only.

I've seen clips & pictures in other forums/news showing Su-24's, I knew Russia had them in the region. 

Offline tigershark

  • News Editor
  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 2025
Re: Georgia 'under attack' as Russian tanks roll in
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2008, 02:23:23 PM »
Georgia declares state of war with Russia
TBLISI, Georgia (CNN) -- Georgia declared a state of war Saturday as fierce battles with Russia military over the breakaway region of South Ossetia entered their second day.   Russia has launched a full-scale military invasion of Georgia, President Mikhail Saakashvili said during a brief news conference Saturday afternoon.

"We are dealing with absolutely criminal and crazy acts of irresponsible and reckless decision makers, which is on the ground producing dramatic and tragic consequences," Saakashvili said.

Saakashvili compared the Russian invasion, which he called unprovoked, to the 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

President George W. Bush called for an immediate halt to the fighting saying the United States is "deeply concerned."    "We have urged an immediate halt to the violence and a standown by all troops, and call for end to the Russian bombings and a return by the parties to the status quo of August the sixth," he said in a statement Saturday.

Russian paratroopers entered the capital of South Ossetia on Saturday as part of a military operation that Russia said was intended to force the Georgian side to cease fire.

Separatist-backed South Ossetian sources reported about 1,600 people have died and 90 have been wounded in the capital of Tskhinvali after two days of fighting, but Georgian officials said the figure was inflated. The Georgians said they didn't have their own death toll, but it would likely be closer to 100.

Inna Gagloyeva, the spokeswoman for the South Ossetian Information and Press Committee, told the Interfax news agency the capital was being "massively shelled" with artillery guns.

It was also unclear which side was in control of Tskhinvali on Saturday, with the Georgian side saying fighting still raged but the Russians saying they have "liberated" the city.

"Battalion task forces have fully liberated Tskhinvali of Georgian armed forces and started pushing Georgian units out of the area of responsibility of the peacekeeping forces," said General Vladimir Boldyrev, commander of the Russian Ground Forces, in an interview with Interfax.

Colonel-General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, a spokesman for the Russian Defense Ministry, told a news conference that the paratroopers will "implement the operation of enforcing peace" on both sides.

Nogovitsyn also confirmed that Georgians had shot down two Russian aircraft.

Russia said the troops were also reinforcing the Russian peacekeepers already in South Ossetia.

"Our peacekeepers, along with reinforcement units, are currently conducting an operation to force the Georgian side to accept peace," Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said at the Kremlin, according to the RIA-Novosti news agency. "They are also responsible for protecting the population."

Interfax said 15 peacekeepers were killed in the Friday attack by Georgian troops. Russia has opened a criminal probe into their deaths, Interfax reported.

Georgia, a former Soviet Republic, is a pro-Western ally of the United States intent on asserting its authority over South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which both have strong Russian-backed separatist movements.

Russia moved troops into South Ossetia early Friday after Georgia launched an operation in the breakaway region when its unilateral cease-fire was met with what it said was artillery fire from separatists that killed 10 people, including peacekeepers and civilians. Video Watch images of crashed Georgian war plane »

Russia charged that Georgia had targeted its peacekeepers stationed in the region. Video Watch Georgian minister describe fighting in South Ossetia »

Medvedev said Saturday that Georgia must be held responsible for the situation in South Ossetia.

"The people responsible for this humanitarian disaster need to be held liable for what they have done," Medvedev said. He said the humanitarian problems were caused by "the aggression launched by the Georgian side against the South Ossetian civilians and Russian peacekeepers."

Russian officials said more than 30,000 refugees have left South Ossetia and crossed into Russia over the past two days, since fighting began, Interfax reported.

A Red Cross official in the Georgian capital of Tbilisi was unable to provide refugee or casualty figures Saturday morning because she said aid workers were still gathering information and visiting hospitals in South Ossetia and western Georgia, where she said two towns suffered damage overnight.

Maia Kardava, a spokeswoman for the Red Cross delegation in Tbilisi, said Russian forces bombarded military and civilian targets the port town of Poti, on Georgia's Black Sea coast. Georgian officials said eight Georgians were killed in the port town.

In the town of Senaki, just inland from Poti, Russian forces damaged a railway line, a military base, and a center housing civilians who fled from nearby Abkhazia, another breakaway Georgian region.

The Georgian town of Gori, about 35 miles northwest of Tbilisi, came under attack from Russian aircraft, Georgian officials said.

Link to full story and source
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/09/georgia.ossetia/index.html#cnnSTCText

Offline tigershark

  • News Editor
  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 2025
Re: Georgia 'under attack' as Russian tanks roll in
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2008, 03:51:49 PM »
Georgia claims control over most of South Ossetia in major attack- 2
08/08/2008 12:56 (Recasts, adds Saakashvili's statement in paras 6-7, details throughout)

MOSCOW, August 8 (RIA Novosti) - Georgia said on Friday it had seized control over almost all towns and villages in its breakaway republic of South Ossetia, following a major ground and air offensive. (PHOTOS)

The Georgian military attacked South Ossetia's capital of Tskhinvali early in the morning with tanks, heavy artillery and infantry, sparking condemnation from Russia, which has warned of "emergency measures" to end the conflict. South Ossetia earlier said 15 people had been killed in the attacks, several buildings were on fire in the city center, and the local parliament building had burned down

Georgian Reunification Minister Temur Yakobashvili said the military was continuing its offensive in Tskhinvali. However, he denied reports that Georgian planes had been bombing the city.

"There is no bombing of Tskhinvali. Street battles are continuing in the city, involving our soldiers. We do not plan to bomb our own servicemen in Tskhinvali," he told a video linkup hosted by RIA Novosti.

The rebel administration had said Georgian Su-25 Frogfoot attack planes had bombed the South Ossetian village of Kvernet as well as a humanitarian aid convoy.

Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili gave a starkly contrasting version of events, saying Georgia had "liberated" South Ossetia from separatists, and that Russia was bombing Georgian villages.

"Most of South Ossetia's territory has been liberated and is now controlled by Georgia... I call on Russia to stop bombarding peaceful Georgian towns," he said in a televised address to the nation.

The Georgian offensive came the morning after Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili declared a unilateral ceasefire, and after the UN Security Council gathered for an emergency meeting.

Georgian PM Lado Gurgenidze said that Georgia had launched the attack on Tskhinvali after South Ossetian separatists had broken the ceasefire and attacked Georgian villages.

Peacekeeping commanders in South Ossetia said the Georgian military had shelled their headquarters in Tskhinvali, killing and injuring several Russian peacekeepers and destroying several barracks.

Georgia's Interior Ministry had earlier claimed that South Ossetian separatists were planning to attack Russian peacekeepers in order to bring Russia into the conflict.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, currently on a visit to Beijing for the start of the Olympics, warned that Georgia's actions would meet a "response."

He said he had discussed the issue with U.S. President George W. Bush and top Chinese officials, who had agreed that full-scale war must be prevented.

At the Security Council session, Russia's UN Ambassador Vitaly Churkin called on the council to intervene to stop violence in the region.

The Kremlin also held emergency talks on the conflict, and said it was considering urgent measures to end the attack on South Ossetia.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev "is heading a meeting to discuss a series of urgent measures to stop the violence in South Ossetia, to protect the civilian population and Russian citizens in the conflict zone," the Kremlin press service said. Many residents of South Ossetia hold Russian citizenship.

Georgian Prime Minister Vladimir Gurgenidze said Georgia would continue its military operation until peace was established.

"The goal of Georgia's actions in the conflict zone is to establish peace in the region. And we will not stop until we have attained this goal," he said. (VIDEO)

He said the country would offer an amnesty to South Ossetia's leaders, and provide over $35 million in reconstruction aid for the province after the establishment of Georgian control.

Source
http://en.rian.ru/world/20080808/115892849.html

Offline nikitron

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Country: ua
Re: Georgia 'under attack' as Russian tanks roll in
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2008, 08:10:35 PM »
So, listen.
I'm ukrainian.
Lets compare USA actions in IRAQ & Russians actions in Osetia:
1. USA went to far country about oil.  Russia answer to Georgian fire on russians in Osetia (boundary country).
2. USA had aim - to destroy totalitarian (what rights they have to do???). Russia have aim - to stop Georgian aggression against Russians in Osetia.


It historically became, that Georgia was divided. So, in Osetia live mostly Russians. But Saakashwilly wish power (what for? I don't know).
Ukrainian politics ready to sold weapon to any country. It is a fact. & Georgia buy weapon from Ukraine & kill Russians. Isn't it disproportionate?
It is historically, that Georgia yield tirans. For example, Stalin - Georgian.


& last - i have friend from Osetia. She say, that Georgian simply go to street & violent (force) women. It is natural for most of Georgians. But some of them still  intellectuals but seat at home, don't protest, because know (see) flock's way of life.

P.S.
It is hard to see & read in CNN and others media, that Russia began. It is not right. Russia protect it's citizens. USA don't protect Americans?

Offline Webmaster

  • MILAVIA Webmaster
  • Administrator
  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 2843
  • Country: nl
Re: Georgia 'under attack' as Russian tanks roll in
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2008, 12:58:28 AM »
Argh, another case of an idiot drawing a border, Stalin in this case if I am informed correctly.

It's almost typical of Russia to legitimize their actions by comparing them to US actions. I'm not buying that, as all cases are different. I can see that Russia had reasons to take action, no need to compare them to the US mistakes.

I think media reporting has been pretty neutral so far, giving both sides of the story without condemning them. But I haven't read all CNN reports.

The Georgian president wants to retain S. Ossetia I think, because the oil/gas pipeline to Europe will run through it. He kind of expected more help from the EU/US than some statements maybe?


I'm not going to respond to the rest of your statements which are highly discrimative. You can also regard this as final warning.
  • Interests: Su-15, Su-27, Tu-22, Tornado, RNLAF
Niels Hillebrand
MILAVIA Webmaster

Offline MightyHunter

  • Flight Leader
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
  • Country: gb
Re: Georgia 'under attack' as Russian tanks roll in
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2008, 03:03:10 AM »
Yeah i now seeing this as Georgia biting off more than they could chew ,they it seems were the ones that provocked Russia into battle by invading this so calles Osetia. Much talk of Georgian soldiers doing bad things and well if this turns out to be the case then its justifiable the Russians took action,

The only worry now is where are they going to stop, Georgia has backed down and retreated yet Russia still moves forward. It would be prudent and wise I think for Russia to stop soon as this will then be seen by many as an Invasion and country take over.
The pipelines that run through Georgia are much needed by the west and the only non russian supply route in that area and is vital for western needs, if this gets messed with then I can see Western involvment over time but chances are that wont happen.


either way sad so many inocent people have died for nothing they have done wrong

 :(

Offline Gripen

  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 1390
  • Country: au
  • WHATEVER YOUR PAST, THE FUTURE IS GRIPEN!
Re: Georgia 'under attack' as Russian tanks roll in
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2008, 08:01:06 AM »
Wasn't Georgia and Russia bffl's during the Soviet era?

Oh, to the Ukrainian guy - Welcome, I like Ukraine.. You guys have Antonov. And Kiev, I'd like to go to Kiev one day  :D

Offline nikitron

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Country: ua
Re: Georgia 'under attack' as Russian tanks roll in
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2008, 05:31:28 PM »
Sorry for hard words.
Georgian are good people, as any people in the world. I reminded Ukrainian examples of violence. We have (like American I guess) children band-formations, that attack  woman at street. Beat only for pleasure (what pleasure they have??). It is Ukraine.

We have made such rulers as Khrushchev, Brejnev, Gorbachev. I see mistakes in their management - Afghanistan, USSR deconstruction and so on. (USSR deconstruction began since Afghanistan war).

So, I propose you remind how Europe influenced on Russia (from times when Ukraine was 1 country with Russia, Belorussia and other not existed and called Kievian Rus -Киевская Русь).:

I will pass Tatarian Igo, wich devided Ukraine from Russia.
Napoleon went to Russia with army - it was his last aim.
In 1914 year 1-st World War began partially to help revolution in Russia (revolution 1917 y. - is like orange revolution in Ukraine, but with blood. Was sponsored by European activists.)
When 2-nd World Wor finished, England & other EU countries did not make Eastern front only for one reason. They waited for Germans destroy ours army. It is fact. Russia single fight back with wide Nazi army. I must remember USA weapon in USSR army, as help from America.

And this even not enough for USA & EU. Revolutions go on. & Georgia was armed not only by Ukraine, but from USA side! (that's what I've heard unofficial).

So, what I need to tell. Russia don't want to return it's regions. Even some time ago (this summer) Russia returned 1.5 islands to China!! Russia have large territory! & don't need troubles! First they want to do - reaper infrastructure in Siberia. Many little towns are dying in north of Russia! Inners problems - main feature in nowadays.

:)
Thanks for listen. It is hard to write in English. I train.

Offline nia

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Country: ge
Re: Georgia 'under attack' as Russian tanks roll in
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2008, 08:13:02 PM »
Dear Ukrainians and not only them!!!

Most you are saying is not true.Georgians never started this war and there was no aggression against Russian or it's better to say Georgian people.
They are now trying to bring back 1921,when under the mask of liberators they conquered our country.Do you really think that they wont come to you???
While I'm writing this message,russian armed forces are approaching Tbilisi.Another question:what's going to happen with us?
One of you said that Georgia has bitten of more than it could chew.Well,in some point it's quiet fair staitment,but we did it because US and Ukrain govenments promissed to help us in this long battle for freedom.
All that is said on Russian television is one big LIE!!!

Offline nikitron

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Country: ua
Re: Georgia 'under attack' as Russian tanks roll in
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2008, 10:08:59 PM »
If you waiting for help from USA & Ukraine - will  wait long. Because Ushenko colour. (трусы они все)
But, if you want stay alive - run to Ukraine or to Armenia or to Iran. Or Turkey in worst case.
It is business between Saakashwilli & South Osetia & Russia.
So, I apologize for words about crew. It happens everywhere.
Georgians is hot people anyway & war, started by 1 will still long in this region.

But tell me. What reason for Russia to attack Georgia? Is it Oil or Gas? I don't think so.
Is it territory. Noway.
Maybe Chechnya is not enough? Hm... I think not.

But what!?!?!?!?
Tell me please.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 10:22:08 PM by nikitron »

Offline nikitron

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Country: ua
Re: Georgia 'under attack' as Russian tanks roll in
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2008, 10:23:40 PM »

Offline MightyHunter

  • Flight Leader
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
  • Country: gb
Re: Georgia 'under attack' as Russian tanks roll in
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2008, 11:38:53 PM »
Well Nia you have good courage to be sat here typing messages on a forum when your country is at war  :(

anyway yes I said about Georgia maybe starting this , I only going by what is said in the news , we have SKY and BBC here as and its a pretty good press group and they give an all round view on things and dont post propoganda. I been off work the last 10 days and been watching this everyday very closely as it has major implications for me ,Im due to fly over Georgia on Thursday at moment I think that will not happen. Anyway back to my point ,the press here are saying that Georgia invaded this area with a \possible response from the Russians , the russians have responded and took back there bit. For all concerened thats it war over but it would appear not,Russia are being slow to come to the bargaining table and using this time to destroy Georgias structure (Bridges ,factories etc etc) In my view the Russians have over stepped and it would seem for a while they have been wanting to do this , according to one reporter today Russia wants to show the world its a force again, unfortunately if they continue much longer then I think the US will step in and force some sanctions or maybe cancel a missile site somewhere for the Russians to leave , it will be be something most of us will never hear about . If the Russians wish to try and push a cold war all over again which if they continue there is a possability of tensions. Hopefully it wont get to that

I just hope for all Russia retreats and does not destroy too much of Georgia and of course no more pople get killed :(

good luck Nia

 



AVIATION TOP 100 - www.avitop.com click to vote for MILAVIA