MILAVIA Forum
Military Aviation => Defence in General => Topic started by: alyster on July 13, 2006, 06:28:17 PM
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Has anyone any idea what Israel is useing against Libanon at the moment?
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I´ve seen them showing F16´s on the news, but you know how reliable they are.. ;)
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I doubt there are many aircraft they won't be using. If my info isn't too outdated they could still be using their Skyhawks and Phantom 2000's as bomb trucks. I don't think they'd be using the Tzukit the way they did in the '67 war though. Do they already have a replacement for that trainer?
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As far as I know the remaining A-4s are only used in the training role. Only 55 Phantoms were upgraded to Phantom 2000, the last were withdrawn in 2004, official farewell ceremony took place on May 12th 2004. The Tzukit (Israeli Magisters) are upgraded and will soldier on until 2010, but I agree they won't be deployed.
I would say it's clearly down to the F-16s and maybe F-15I, since they reportedly used GBU-28 bunker busters. Maybe we'll see the first combat deployment of the F-16I. Begin this year the upgrade of the F-15A/B/C/Ds was completed, so that means they could be used to employ GPS guided weapons as well. Closest base to the border is Ramat David with three F-16C/D Block 30 squadrons, so I guess it's save to assume that they've been busy.
On the first days, I've seen Apaches (dunno if is was a Saraf or Peten) firing rockets or hellfires from medium-low altitude, quite high for an attack helicopter, but probably safer.
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Ok, confirmed from estonian captain that they just hit UN base in Lebanon with a bunkerbuster and some artillery fire(155mm) :o
So any guess which one was it GBU-24 or 28? Or just BLU-109
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::) ??? I thought they said it was a rocket fired from a helicopter.... ::)
Bunkerbuster as well as arti...hard to believe it was an accident.
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They used phosphorus bombs also. Just dont have any info from specialists was it more then allowed.
Oh and btw the army is strongly underfinaced due to the allmighty airforce ;D (guess this is the "You should have joined the airforce" time)
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are they still using there Al Kfirs?
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I tought they were out of service in Israel?
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maybe, i dont know...thats why i asked ???
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Yeah, out of service, in storage. Reserve maybe, it is Israel you know, but I think they are hoping to sell some airframes or parts to other Kfir operators that still fly them, suppose that's the main reason for not disposing them (or at least not all of them). Don't think IAI/Elbit is still marketing the Kfir C.10 upgrade to new customers, old IDF/AF airframes could be used for it I guess.
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Israel needs to acquire new fighters - they won't be able to maintain air supremacy over the Middle East forever flying F-16s and F-15s - and no, I'm not contradicting what I'm saying about 2 of the planes I admire, I'm just saying they need to acquire new fighters - possibly the F-35, Typhoon or Gripen? Or build one of their own using Western parts, whether American or European? I have a feeling Russia won't sell the Su-27 airframe to them.
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I don't think that would happen. Before the Israel-Lebanon conflict two leading generals in the IDF were both from airforce and airforce got some good funding. Now the army however proved itself to be very weak in the conflict. They've got lots of new things they've built for the army but only few of them have entered the service. So I guess the army will get the bigger half now.
However it is likely that Russia may sell some fighters to Iran or Syria(who else could afford enough of them there?). In the last conflict IDF spoted several russian made high tech anti tank weapons in hand of hezbollah, which probably were sold to them trough Syria. So Iran's got the money for it and need probably too. However if it would escalte into a war with israelis, then jews have 2 missiles aremed with nukes and 3 subs(2 to be added soon) with nukes in range of Iran. So no worries.
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I read some recent news that Israel is looking to buy additional F-15I with improvements, possibly the AN/APG-79 AESA radar, reportedly it's known as F-15SX. In the meantime, the third F-16I squadron was activated. They ordered a total of 102 F-16I's in two batches, I wouldn't be surprised if a third batch will be ordered in the near future. Israel will probably keep buying US weapons, if not then the French Rafale is a more likely option than the Typhoon or Gripen. Israel will probably never join an international development program for a jet fighter, because they keep their secrets closely guarded and rather buy off-the-shelf and then take "everything" out and put their own systems in (at least that's how our former defence minister put it at a lecture).
Saudi Arabia is shopping, Syria is shopping, so don't be afraid that Israel won't.
By the way, it's IASF now instead of IDF/AF for those that didn't know. S stands for Space... ;) So they are not sitting still.
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I still think the Typhoon and Gripen are a better fighter than the Rafale. On the negative side, the Typhoon may cost too much, but the Gripen and Rafale may be more affordable.
And Mr. Alyster, I'm not talking about using nukes here. I know Israel would have no reservation about using them and they could wipe out the enitre Middle East region, but that would put us all on the losing end. So, I'm not worried about Israel in that respect - they were ready to use the nukes during the 6 Day War, nobody else in that region had one.
And no one will dare attack them, the US backs up Israel.
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I still think the Typhoon and Gripen are a better fighter than the Rafale. On the negative side, the Typhoon may cost too much, but the Gripen and Rafale may be more affordable.
And Mr. Alyster, I'm not talking about using nukes here. I know Israel would have no reservation about using them and they could wipe out the enitre Middle East region, but that would put us all on the losing end. So, I'm not worried about Israel in that respect - they were ready to use the nukes during the 6 Day War, nobody else in that region had one.
And no one will dare attack them, the US backs up Israel.
the US does back Israel, but do you know what wold happen if America supported Israel in a war? If you thought the Americans in Iraq/Afghanistan was bad, you should see what will happen when they have the WHOLE power of the middle eastern militaries on them. the americans are good and will hand out massive casualties- but numbers will be a downfall for them.. and besides, they already have to many problems in the Mid East, why start another one?
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Gripen, I wasn't talking about another war; I already opppose the war in Iraq, which I initially supported. It' s becoming another Vietnam - something the American people don't want. We're not war mongers - if anything it's our government who's there for other reasons - like oil. We don't want to see our young boys and girls getting caught in anymore bomb attacks. It's not worth it. I'm a parent myself, and I wouldn't want to see that happen to any of my kids. I'm glad they're still little.
For me personally, I would like to see the US pull out of Iraq and many other areas of the world w/ the exception of Europe where the US has obligations towards NATO allies, unless the allies don't want us there. I would rather see the US government spend all those billions in fixing the economy and other internal problems we have.
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what i meant is if America militarily supports Israel, then (no offence) the Muslim worlds to most hated enemies would become a greater threat to the security of the Islamic world and THAT could cause the war i was talking about