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Author Topic: South American Arms Race  (Read 61859 times)

Offline tigershark

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Re: South American Arms Race
« Reply #48 on: October 28, 2008, 12:59:23 AM »
Brazil's buying 5 subs and one going to be a nuke Boat?  They could buy 100 fighters with that money and support them for years.  Brazil's Navy has more pull in Brazil's government then any other branch and that shows.  The carrier purchase didn't seem to work out well for them either.

Brazil has Frigates that need upgrading and have pressing inner navy needs that over shadow buying a nuclear sub.  They have no blue water threat to deal with and the naval spending could be better directed at more useful items. 

Brazil's F-5 was done very nicely and they worked with with the Israeli's on that project, nobody could get more out that type.  I wish Brazil was allowed years ago to go with the F-20 they would have done great with that. 


Offline SAS73

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Re: South American Arms Race
« Reply #49 on: October 29, 2008, 03:11:17 AM »
Well I think the new OIL resources recently founded by PETROBRAS near the brazilian shores is a good excuse for the brazilian military to invest in a Nuclear Sub. On the other hand is very impresive the amount of money invested in Helicopters, the F-5 renovations (upgrades) and the FX program. In other topic Brazil could have the largest helicopter fleet in the region, now only Colombia have it. but wiht all that money in choppers let me say, wow :o!!!!!!!!

Offline tigershark

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Re: South American Arms Race
« Reply #50 on: October 29, 2008, 06:19:15 PM »
I think diesel boats would do fine for protection and that more surface vessels like Frigates, Missile Boat's, and Destroyers are needed.  No other South American country has a strong navy so they face little threats in that area.  If China or Russia for some strange reason threaten Brazil the US would help and since both are investors in Brazil, I don't see that happening. 

Air power rules in modern warfare and lets face it besides Brazil's fine F-5 III fleet they have a old and slightly outdated aircraft.  Building up fighters, tanker assets, and transport is money better spent. 

A standard fighter type bought in numbers like the Gripen or even the Rafale would serve their needs for years.  Either choice could replace the F-5, AMX, and Mirage 2000-Cs cut down on overall cost and training.  Switch part of the production to local industry for the last batch of aircraft so Brazil could support them long term and Brazil's set.  Let Brazil focus on building up their oil industry by investing in building refineries, pipelines, oil tankers, etc, then nuclear subs.   Just my two cent. 

Helicopters I agree with the purchases Brazil's helicopter needs aren't met currently and doubling them is the first step.  Brazil's going to triple their numbers and produce more mid size transport aircraft as well over the next five to eight years when their western territories open up.

Offline SAS73

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Re: South American Arms Race
« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2008, 04:51:19 AM »
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev arrived here Monday on a three-day visit to Brazil, where he will meet his Brazilian counterpart Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva and sign deals on aerospace, nuclear energy and defense cooperation with Brazil.

Brazil will sign a 300-million-U.S.-dollar deal with Russia for the purchase of 12 Russian MI-35 military helicopters.

http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/90853/6540124.html

Interesting to see more Hinds in South America, BTW Colombia Acquired 24 Embraer Super Tucano COIN aircraft a few years ago almost for the same money of this Mi-35 business that Brazil is making with the ruskies. Colombia has been witness this year of how the Super Tucano perform in the battle field, killing the No.2 of the FARC and many more narco-terrorist from that terrorist group, why will Brazil doesent invest this money in the develeopment of a chopper like the Hind, having a big company like Embraer, or waist in just only 12 Hinds?

Offline tigershark

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Re: South American Arms Race
« Reply #52 on: November 26, 2008, 02:46:11 PM »
That's a good question I mean the Hind is a useful design don't get me wrong but it's old and overall a large and heavy platform.  For jungle operations not a small helicopter either and the weapons suite, night version, radar, etc are good but better can be found.   And just 12 doesn't seem like a big investment either this is like were "sorry were not buying your Flankers" but were buy a few helicopters instead type thing. 

Offline SAS73

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Re: South American Arms Race
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2008, 11:43:47 AM »
So that will be a bad investment, a Full armed version of the UH-60 like the colombian Arpia III could do a better job than the Mi-35: I think its a waist of money. What it is the efective range and combat radius of the Hind comaring the Blackhawk? I am sure that also the weapons load of the UH-60 its better than the Hind, and the flying and navegation mode its totally different like all western made choppers, so why Brazil insist in this chopper?

Offline tigershark

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Re: South American Arms Race
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2008, 01:50:03 PM »
The Hind has better armor and can be armed to the teeth with weapons don't get me wrong.  Just buying 12 and after using western types all this time and have a French helicopter factory in Brazil, doesn't make sense to me.  This is a small part of the $6 billion dollars in trade between Russia and Brazil, Russia's hoping to see go up to $10 billion.  The helicopters get the press but there's much more between these two countries then 12 Hind-35 gunship helicopters.   

Offline tigershark

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Re: South American Arms Race
« Reply #55 on: January 11, 2009, 10:21:58 PM »
Why buy two types of missiles that do the same thing?  Also doesn't the $650 seem to little to do all these things?  South America getting interesting just waiting on Brazil aircraft bid.  Also heard a rumor from a friend that Argentina may upgrade 240 TAM tanks but only from a friend and have no link to back it.

Quote
PERU:  No Crisis for Arms Purchases
By Ángel Páez

LIMA, Jan 9 (IPS) - The global economic crisis apparently has not affected the Peruvian government’s plan to modernize the armed forces, which is to cost 650 million dollars from here to 2011.

The Peruvian army recently signed a 25 million dollar contract with Russia’s state arms exporter Rosoboronexport for 244 Kornet long-range anti-tank missiles to replace the Soviet-made Malyutka missiles acquired by Peru’s military dictatorship in the 1970s.

Defence Ministry and army sources confirmed to IPS that a 48 million dollar purchase of another 244 Spike long-range anti-tank missiles, super-modern weapons manufactured by the Israel-based Rafael Advanced Systems, has also been approved, but not signed.

But the army’s decision to purchase two different kinds of the same weapon, the Russian-made Kornet and the Israeli Spike -- the second of which costs nearly double -- drew the attention of the Comptroller General’s Office.

Although army specialists recommended the purchase of just one kind of long-range anti-tank missile, controversial former army chief General Edwin Donayre (2007-2008) insisted that the Spike missiles should be considered because Chile has them.

(Relations between Chile and Peru have been marred by a 120-year dispute dating back to the 1879-1883 War of the Pacific, in which Chile defeated Peru and Bolivia and annexed the former Peruvian province of Tarapacá and the former Bolivian province of Antofagasta.)

Donayre even invited representatives of Rafael Advanced Systems to give the joint chiefs of staff an exhibition on the Spike missiles, a privilege that no other firm enjoyed. He also posed for photos holding a Spike missile launcher on his shoulder at a fair that he organised at the army commander’s headquarters.

"We asked the military institutions for complete information on the procurement processes," sources at the Comptroller General’s Office told IPS. "When it comes to oversight and monitoring, secrets are never justified.

"Experience has shown us that where something has been kept secret, we must intervene, for prevention purposes. The recent past has made it clear to us that there is corruption in secret purchases," the sources said.

The official web site (http://www.mef.gob.pe/DGPM/snipnet.php) of the National Public Investment System (SNIP), an Economy Ministry agency that evaluates public spending projects, should provide details of state spending and a description of goods and services to be purchased or hired, but omits information on armed forces procurements.
The Defence Ministry sources argued that, at the request of the armed forces, which invoked national security, no information is provided on purchases by the army, the navy or the air force.

Ironically, to justify keeping military purchases secret, the Defence Ministry cited the Law on Transparency and Access to Public Information, which stipulates that public bodies must account for their actions, especially in the case of procurements, but has a clause that allows for exceptions based on "national security concerns."

However, the Comptroller-General’s Office has informed the Defence Ministry that what is kept secret in such cases are the details of what is being purchased, not the procurement process itself.

The regime of Alberto Fujimori (1990-2000) took advantage of state secrecy laws to conceal the purchase of more than 1.5 billion dollars in military equipment.

In the last few months, the government of Alan García has taken steps to facilitate military purchases. For example, the central bank granted the Defence Ministry a 258 million dollar loan, and SNIP authorised the purchase and contracting of nearly 452 million dollars in goods and services by the armed forces.

"The purchase of the Kornet and Spike missiles is a response to the acquisition of Leopard II tanks by Chile," army sources told IPS. "Here in Peru we don’t have a budget as big as that of our southern neighbour, to make such large purchases."

However, SNIP approved a 157 million dollar purchase to replace T-55 Soviet-made tanks with T-72M1 tanks, expected to be carried out before García’s term ends in July 2011.

According to the army sources, short and long-range anti-tank missiles are to be acquired this year, along with 10,000 assault rifles, a satellite communications system, and artillery and air defence equipment.

The navy plans to complete the purchase of eight Sea King helicopters, two used Italian frigates, and four Newport class tank landing ships, for a total of 110 million dollars.

In the case of the air force, the governments of Peru and Russia signed an agreement in November for the installation of a technical centre in Lima for the maintenance and overhaul of Russian helicopters like the Mi-8, Mi-17 and Mi-26.

This year, the process of upgrading the air force’s MiG-29 planes will begin, and the possibility of purchasing Sukhoi-27 planes will be studied. (END/2009)

Link
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45349

Offline SAS73

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Re: South American Arms Race
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2009, 03:47:49 AM »
Interesting this Peru Weapons Shoping, I see this is the propper reaction to all the Chile weapons adquisitions. amazing if Peru could buy some Su-27.

Offline tigershark

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Re: South American Arms Race
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2009, 04:12:10 AM »
Hi SAS73
Money wise Venezuela (28) Su-30mk2v were in the $900+ million range I believe but I don't think that was with spares, training, or weapons.
Chile has a sizable AF so I was hoping Peru would pick up the finished Algerian SMT Fulcrums and add them to fleet.  I think it was (19) Fulcrums being upgraded in this other article for $109 million called SMP.    I would have to hunt around but I think Algeria return (14) or (16) SMT Fulcrums so by taking these would bring Peru's total up to around (25).   

Taking on a new type some Flanker version would be difficult and time consuming at least Peru has some Fulcrum pilots with stick time they had them since 1988/89.  I know there has been cuts but they must have some maintenance facilities and trained up maintenance personnel by this time.   So changing types would mean total change from A to Z, I assume some of the weapons would be usable for both Fulcrums & Flankers. 

The Flanker does have more of a future sadly MIG may go under.  On the flip side look how long it's taking Venezuela to even receive the Flankers and train up forces, and that's with extra oil side money.  Peru wouldn't have that so I think they make do with there Fulcrums until they fall out of the sky. 

Can't imagine in Peru's rough times that they have many Mirage 2000 pilots trained up with so little flight time and you know their maintenance personnel are in the same shape. 

On a different note any fresh news on Colombia's Kfir's?   

Offline SAS73

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Re: South American Arms Race
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2009, 01:18:52 PM »
German HDW and British MFI to modernize Colombian Class 209 submarines


10:30 GMT, January 14, 2009 defpro.com | Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH (HDW), a company of ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems AG (TKMS), and MarineForce International LLP (MFI) signed a contract for two material packages for the maintenance and modernization of the Colombian Navy diesel- electric submarines “A.R.C. Pijao” and “A.R.C. Tayrona” end last year. The contract was signed between the HDW/MFI consortium and the Colombian Ministry of Defence.

HDW built the two boats in Kiel from 1970 and delivered them five years later to the Colombian Navy. Since then, the two Class 209/1200 boats have been subjected to two modernisation programmes at the shipyard in Germany where they were built. This new modernisation project will be carried out in Colombia by the state-owned shipyard COTECMAR in Cartagena. The scope of delivery by HDW and MFI encompasses the two material packages as well as support for COTECMAR with technical know-how.

The Colombian shipyard plans to conclude the project by the end of 2011. The modernized Class 209 will feature most recent technology, high combat strength, extraordinary battery payload and low signatures.

In order to increase their indiscretion rate, Class 209 boats may be equipped with a Fuel Cell or Stirling plug-in section for air-independent submarine propulsion. Such integration can be done during a regular midlife modernisation and leads to a considerable increase in submerged endurance. The first ships to receive this upgrade will be three ships of the Greeks Poseidon class Type 209/1200 under the Neptune II upgrade programme. They will be upgraded by cutting the boat in half aft of the control room and adding a 6 m plug with an 120 kW Siemens AIP system to the ship.

However, it is not yet released which kind of modernization the Colombian submarine will receive.

With 63 units contracted to date, the HDW Class 209 submarines represent the most successful non-nuclear submarine class in the world. In South America alone, submarines of this class are in service in seven navies. Her comprehensive mission profiles include not only maritime defence and conflict prevention, but also surveillance and intelligence gathering tasks. She is also ideally suited for special operation missions.



Source: http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/218/


Offline SAS73

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Re: South American Arms Race
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2009, 01:20:25 PM »
On a different note any fresh news on Colombia's Kfir's? 

Not for the momentm, the Colombian Air Force are waitng 12 new and 11 to upgrade to the C-10 version

 



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