Threat to America

[alyster]

I think the Abrams' case is bit too extream. There is not a single tank in the world that has enough armour to be safe. Hizbullah blew up IDF Merkavas and these are not bad tanks. Why waste money on super tanks when a round from Carl-Gustav or some bit more expentsive missile can blow it up(but much cheaper then a tank), not to mention a A-10 or anything similar to it.

I know estonian small forces in iraq don't even like to use APCs on patrols, but prefer bit extra-armoured trucks. The APCs they say, are more deadly. It's how the forces effect the machine when a missile hits.

And as I said even Hizbullah was capable of blowing up world class tanks, not to mention someone like Iran or China.

Tanks are getting bit out of date. They were needed in WW1 to cover the attacks cause defensive weapondry was so much better then offensive. In WW2 they were also very good offensive weapondry, but I really can't understand what's there so much to do with them nowdays. All they do is blow up rebel buildings or suspicious cars on Iraqi highways....

[Cobra2]

I think we still very much need tanks.

[Viggen]

Yupp, we need a worldwide tanksgiving-day.. 

[Valiant1]

I see alyster's point, but tanks like the M1, Leopard 2 and Challenger 2 are very much needed.  Case in point -

One M1 got stuck in a ditch in Iraq and instead of abandoning it, the US Army decided to destroy it to keep it from falling into enemy hands. The remaining nine M1's surrounded it from only a 50-yard distance and opened fire using SABOT rounds.  Of the 9 SABOT rounds, ONLY 1 penetrated and that is because that specific area of the turret was hit a few times before it gave in.

Another one - a Challenger 2 was ambushed by Iraqi insurgents - a few RPG's and 2 anti-tank missiles were fired at it from close distance - didn't even put a dent in the armor.  The tank was up and running the following week.

[alyster]

US is just lucky that Iraqi fighters don't have Kornets yet unlike Hizbullah. That would leave a mess.

[Gripen]

Tanks are the battleships of the land. Big, powerful, but becoming outdated. they have readched the pinnacle in the Abrams, Challenger 2, Merkava and Leopard. Sooner or later, they will be too outdated to have any use.

[alyster]

India signed a 1B dollar deal with Russia for 300 T-90 tanks. Looks like Russia is going to hold it's first position in the world with arms export in 2007 also...

[Valiant1]

Tanks are not necessarily outdated, with better anti-tank missiles comes better tank armor.  It's gonna be like that.  Tanks, I believe will evolve and still be a viable force on the battelfield. 

[Cobra2]

Yeah, thats what I think.

[alyster]

You can put anti-missile systems on tanks, but come on...the tanks are going up to 70 tonnes now. That's more than Tiger II. We're already reaching by tanks weights the super-heavy class.  How much armour are you willing to put on it and where will you take the engines?

[terminator]

alyster i also heard that the hindus will build their own type of the t-90 the t-90s bhishma cause the russkies gave them the technology and weapons systems ,and besides the 1 u mentioned they have placed another order on 310 t-90s and they plan to build 1000 of their bhishma and i cant believe that Algeria has like 300 t-90 tanks ,i agree that tanks are still needed but against other tanks against insurgents like in Iraq we need light vehicles, anyways is the 125mm smoothbore gun strong enough to penetrate the abrams or the leopard challenger,merkava.etc?

[Valiant1]

terminator, the 125mm is not strong enough to penetrate the M1, Challenger or Leopard. I don't know about the Merkava.  The T-90s would have to do what the Shermans did in WW2 against Tigers - shoot them from behind.  BUT, the M1s, Challengers and Leopards are so much quicker than the old Tigers that it would take a lot of luck and skill to get behind one of them.

I worked with a guy who was in the US Army and worked on M1s and he said that the "advertised" speed of the M1 is not 42mph, it's more like 85mph and faster.  The only reason why the top speed is 42mph is because the M1s are equipped with a built-in speed governor that prevents the M1 from going beyond 45mph or else the Allison transmission would shred to pieces.  He said the tank crews can actually get the M1 to 65mph without destroying the trans.  That's fast for a 70-ton vehicle!