MILAVIA Forum

Military Aviation => Defence in General => Topic started by: terminator on December 19, 2006, 03:02:37 PM

Title: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on December 19, 2006, 03:02:37 PM
its a class project plz vote
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on December 19, 2006, 11:50:06 PM
plz also leave a comment to say y u think so..i think north korea is a serious threat cause if they attack we cant  defend against them with our forces already to busy in iraq,so plz vote and comment about it :-[
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on December 20, 2006, 02:06:18 AM
to be honest i dont think any of them are a threat.

Syria= They have nothing that can hit america

Russia= They have downgraded their entire military, and they are trying to become allies with the US, so why would they want to reck that?

North Korea= Same as syria, but the US is most likely to hit NK, so in that case the Koreans would pose a threat

China= Large Military, but lack long range equiptment.
 
Iran= outdated equiptment and lack of funding. i suppose you could say that they owe america for taking out Saddam

Mexico= They would have the surprise, but being so close to america, logistics would be no problem for the US.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on December 20, 2006, 02:35:35 PM
yeah ,but thats if they wanted to invade ,if nk attacks sk u think we wont involved? yeah russia cant attack the us directly,but syria,iran and russia dont like Israel ,we'll have to get involved 2
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Viggen on December 20, 2006, 02:58:42 PM
I voted for Iran and thats mostly because of the terrorist-threat. But a so called all out war from any of these countries seems very unlikely. Logistict it makes it impossible at the moment.  :)
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on December 21, 2006, 05:49:59 AM
Russia would still have to be the biggest threat, because they still have long range missiles, planes and millions of submarines.

Iran is a threat, but why would they want to.

And terrorists dont represent countries. They mostly reprosent religion or something else
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Valiant1 on December 21, 2006, 04:56:35 PM
Gripen, agree with you on the last 2.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: alyster on December 21, 2006, 09:14:15 PM
Gripen, I don't share your belife in Russia. They only serve their own intrests. We can't blame them for that either   :-X

My vote went for Russia and Mr.GasPutin. Atlist for now. Those Topol-Ms are quite scary.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Cobra2 on December 21, 2006, 11:17:39 PM
None are threats   ::) they cant match our stuff eccept terror attacks and Russia has only 1 carrier 1 destroyer or something but a bunch of subs but like Gripen said they downgraded their military and they dont have enough money to buy oil for training thus making their pilots not very good.
And Mexico is close but they dont even have an organized military do they?
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on December 21, 2006, 11:21:21 PM
na i dont think so.iam adding canada cause they might become communist or nazist and attack us >:D
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Cobra2 on December 21, 2006, 11:30:47 PM
Yeah, uh huh....
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on December 21, 2006, 11:33:09 PM
dude u never know canada is like the little kid in the back of the classroom ,who desnt talk and ends up being a serial killer nad kills everybody!!! >:D >:D
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on December 21, 2006, 11:59:03 PM
God i live in Australia, our biggest threat is a pack of crazy farmers coz the government is giving them a bad deal, and i can tell you that Canada wouldnt attack the US..


Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on December 22, 2006, 01:58:16 AM
i know man iam just playing around
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Cobra2 on December 22, 2006, 11:01:45 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on December 23, 2006, 02:17:16 AM
If you wanted to add Canada, you would have to add Britain and France. Britain and the US may be bed buddies,  but Canada is Britain and Frances love child, so both countries would want to defend the child!
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on December 23, 2006, 03:40:02 AM
haha ,yeah good point ,i should take out mexico ,cause i dont think the spanish woul help them................. >:D >:D
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on December 23, 2006, 04:02:19 AM
You could add Cuba. They are Communist, hate America, some other stuff, and oh yea Gitmo is in Cuba. They dont like it there, and its techniqally a part of America, so they could take out Gitmo with, slingshots or something, and they would have attacked America, then the US would destroy Cuba, but whatever. DAMN IM BABBLING AGAIN!
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on December 23, 2006, 04:31:05 AM
yeah ur right i didnt think about that ,i think they wont use slingshots.......,they'll probably use the mig the soviets left them od the missiles ,u know all they inherited from their ''daddy'' >:D
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on December 23, 2006, 08:37:39 AM
Cuban planes cant come out of their hangars with out America knowing about it, so how could they attack with Migs if they cant get of the ground, and their missiles are 60's era, which was like...40 years ago, and without the Russkies helping them anymore, they probably rusted away to nothing ages ago.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on December 23, 2006, 06:32:03 PM
yeah but if they attack ,they wont do u it  when we ''can do something about it'' if they do it itll probably b when we r so busy whith a war or ''problem'' whatever that we wont b able to do much about it ,yeah their equipment is old ,but ak's and migs are still somewhat deadly
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: alyster on December 23, 2006, 08:34:50 PM
You'll lose Quantanamo then, what's so bad about it? Amnesty International would probably welcome that  ;D
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Valiant1 on December 23, 2006, 10:04:55 PM
I have to say, I think the real threat to America are the politicians - this is coming from an American.  I say this because we are not doing what we're supposed to do and that is take care of the American people.  American politicians are only concerned with what's good for their pockets - every issue has some self-motive behind it. 

We, as Americans, wouldn't have these problems in the world if our own idiot politicians didn't stick their noses in everyone's business.  I agree we should go after Bin Laden in Afghanistan because of the atrocity he committed on 9/11/2001.  But now, looking at the situation in Iraq, we should have never gone there - the US government should have concentrated our military in catching Bin Laden. 

Now we're spread thin, weakening us even more.  I believe we need to pull out of the ENTIRE Middle East region and save ourselves billions of $$$, which should go back to our economy.  We need to do a self-evaluation and look at what our politicians are doing to the American people.  AND we need to take control of the oil tycoons, the insurance and pharmaceutical giants in this country and put a stop to their corruption. 

Enough said.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on December 23, 2006, 10:12:58 PM
word son!!!!!,but i dont think we can pull out now ,i mean ur gonna tell the american ppl that 3000 american soldiers died in vain?but u right i hope they(soldiers)come back home quickly
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on December 24, 2006, 12:32:51 AM
I agree and disagree with you there.

America's politicians stick their noses into everything, but arn't they all elected, so arn't you selecting the nose-stickers-into-everything people?

And America dosent have conscription anymore, all of your soldiers are volunteers. They know the risks and they accept them for their country. Willing to die for your country is something that people can be proud of.

And America isnt the only country in Iraq. It annoys me so much when people say that America is the only country losing people in Iraq. Alot of other countries are there, having the people killed, but we dont hear about that on the news, its always America.

Im not anti-American, but your really need to change your foreign policy.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Cobra2 on December 28, 2006, 12:22:46 AM
Yeah....and quit posting such long stuff...  :-X did I just think out loud again?  ;D
Anyway, I know Britain is in there but who else is in there? are the Aussies?
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on December 28, 2006, 02:12:46 AM
there's even russians for christ's sake!!!! there are peruvians,colombians,salvadorians,germans,frenchies,etc,etc..we got them from those countries ,but we pay for their equipment and training,yeah man i heard alot about tha australians ,they got good soldiers they also got their own SAS unit right?
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Valiant1 on December 28, 2006, 05:07:39 AM
To answer Gripen,

As far as us electiing these officials, half of us do and the other half don't - depends if you're Democrat or Republican - but I'm saying is that American people need to keep up with these politicians and make sure they're doing what they're elected to do, instead of abusing the privileges that have been given to them.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Cobra2 on December 29, 2006, 02:27:10 AM
there's even russians for christ's sake!!!! there are peruvians,colombians,salvadorians,germans,frenchies,etc,etc..we got them from those countries ,but we pay for their equipment and training,yeah man i heard alot about tha australians ,they got good soldiers they also got their own SAS unit right?

Russians and Germans?  are you sure?
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Webmaster on December 30, 2006, 01:04:11 AM
who? Bush...

Seriously though, the most serious threat to the US is its own foreign politics. When they decide North Korea should be pre-emptied, or Iran be invaded, for whatever reasons, it will probably not be because of the threat they pose to America directly, only its interests and allies. In that sense I vote for Iran, because Iran might do something that the US doesn't like and action is taken. Then there's a threat to America because its military will be even more overstretched as well as the resulting terrorist attacks from Muslim extremists who will fight a Jihad.

Having said this, I have to add that I assume that the US is smart enough not to directly confront Iran or its regime. Secondly that the US foreign policies of protecting its allies is justified, but it might get the country into situations that can result in serious threats to its own safety.

China is an economical threat, I don't think it will be a military threat until they really do attack Taiwan.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Valiant1 on December 30, 2006, 06:12:58 AM
I agree with the things you said.  I, as an American,  originally supported the Iraq issue, but now, I am leaning against it.  As you said, our own foreign policy, dictated by our wonderful politicains of course, has become our worst enemy.  I agree going into Afghanistan and taking care of business there - and that's where I think the US should concentrate the manpower and resources, not Iraq. 

We're in no position to overstretch our forces; it would put us in a very vulnerable state.

I think maybe all Americans should unite and send our politicians to do the fighting!  Hoo! Hah! 
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on December 31, 2006, 04:10:43 AM
Australia has troops in Afghanistan, Iraq, and some other places that i cant think of. our SAS is good, but its not as famous as the British one. Ours is small, but well equipped.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Viggen on December 31, 2006, 06:03:53 PM
Australia has troops in Afghanistan, Iraq, and some other places that i cant think of. our SAS is good, but its not as famous as the British one. Ours is small, but well equipped.

They are having exercises together and the Australian SAS is just as tough. In my eyes, SAS is the only real special forces unit in the world. Who Dares, Wins!!  :)
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Valiant1 on January 01, 2007, 12:50:16 AM
I beg to differ there Viggen, US Navy Seals aren't exactly a bunch of boy scouts. 
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on January 01, 2007, 01:04:11 AM
The only good thing that SEALS have done is 3 good PS2 games and a PSP game!
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Viggen on January 01, 2007, 08:21:48 PM
The Seals are not bad at all. I just mean that SAS play in a whole diffrent leauge. Without SAS, US would not have Delta Force. They were trained and helped by SAS to start up the unit. Btw, this goes for many other countries that have special forces, including Sweden.

Navy seals is the water version of Delta, just as SBS is the same of SAS. The diffrence is that SBS is a part of SAS. The Seals belong to the navy and Delta to the Army. So here you have politicians deciding which one will be used in case of , for example  a hostage rescue. (Think of Iran 1980). 

They are all very good and dangerous and have proved themselfes in battle several times. But my point is that no other unit in the world have so much knowledge of warfare as SAS.  :)
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on January 02, 2007, 02:47:36 PM
yeah man i agree the delta,seals,etc. come from the SAS ,not as good as supertroopers...
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Valiant1 on January 02, 2007, 10:35:50 PM
Believe me, I don't knock the British on anything...on the contrary, I feel the US is in the position it's in now, one reason is because of Britain.  Here's some examples:

1. The best WW2 fighter in the world was the P-51D Mustang - a joining of an excellent airframe from North American, with Rolls Royce's Merlin engine.
2. The US nuclear aircraft carrier is the largest and most powerful warship afloat - the US acquired the hurricane bow, the angle deck and I believe, but I'm not sure,
     the steam catapult all from the British.
3. The British also shared their radar and jet technology with the US during WW2.

So, my hat's off to the Mother Country for their help.  I'm glad that in times of need, we can count on each other for assistance.

As for Gripen's comment about the SEALS, it's not worthy of a rebuttal.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on January 03, 2007, 01:10:52 AM
yeah valiant ,but who did the brits stole that tech from? the krauts,and the reds(at that time)true the brits make good things ,but even the brits wouldnt have gotten that tech if it wasnt for the motherland  or Jerry >:D >:D
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on January 03, 2007, 01:17:06 AM
Britain had radar before Germany, as far as i know, the german one was a copy of the British. And th british jet technology was never as good as the germans, they had a jet plane in 1938 and the british took to like 1942 to get one in the air. the only problem with germany was that hitler screwed them and wanted the ME-262 wanted to be built as a fighter-bomber instead of pure fighter
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Viggen on January 04, 2007, 02:31:32 AM
Now you kids play nice!!!  ;)

Germany has always been leading in the evolution of technoligy, its the harsh truth and reality. After WW2 both the allies and the russkies captured as much german information, scientists and tech as possible. From this the world evolved to what we have today. Hitler used all that technologi for his own bad agenda. But what if Hitler never went to war and used his scientists in a peaceful way?? Im not sure that US would been the first to land on the moon or the Russians to be first  launching a satelite or put a man in space. The germans  would probably have beaten everybody to it, and even perhaps break through the soundbarrier first.

But what all this has to do with the "Threat to America", i dont know.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on January 04, 2007, 02:36:19 PM
yeah man we kind of went off course ,but u r right we wouldnt b were we r right now without jerry's help,what about now does germany have a good air force? i also heard the leopard 2 can b a match for our abrams is that true?
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: alyster on January 04, 2007, 08:46:08 PM
I beg to differ there Viggen, US Navy Seals aren't exactly a bunch of boy scouts. 

Accually that's one of the threats to America. Navy seals are not boy scouts, however large part of the regular army truely are boy scouts with toys. Alot of US soldiers in Iraq are my age who joined the army  just cause the army would pay for their collage education. They are not even old enough to legally drink alcohol in the states however they are men enough for the goverment to send them to the other side of the world to kill and to be killed  :-\
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on January 05, 2007, 12:35:15 AM
i suppose thats how the government and the country say thanks
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Valiant1 on January 05, 2007, 07:39:50 PM
To answer Terminator, the Leopard 2 would definitely be a match for the M1A2 Abrams, particularly the Leopard 2A6 model that sporst a new 120mm long-barrelled 55 caliber smoothbore main cannon.  They can "reach out and touch someone" better than the older 50 caliber 120mm cannon, which the Abrams has. And BTW, the Abrams main cannon is built in the US but licensed under Rheinmetall of Germany who produces the guns for the Abrams and Leopards.

I hope the US Army will acquire this new cannon and install it in the Abrams, which would probably be designated M1A3 Abrams.  I also think the Challenger 2 is on a par with the Leopard 2 and Abrams.  I don't think anything else out there can touch these 3 supertanks, tank crews being equal.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on January 05, 2007, 11:02:45 PM
whats about the (something like this iam not sure)merkava ,is israeli ,the 1 that has a hatchet in the back of the tank?also what planes do they have eurofighters and....? ??? ???
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: alyster on January 06, 2007, 12:50:07 AM
You mean Merkava IV?
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on January 06, 2007, 01:07:04 AM
Yea, the Merkava is a good tank. Basically the same as the Challenger, Lepard and Abrams in terms of speed, firepower and armour
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on January 06, 2007, 07:11:37 PM
yeah that 1,1 last thing what planes do the israelis fly?
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on January 06, 2007, 11:47:00 PM
Mixture of American and European planes. F-16, Mirage, Israeli Modified Mirage
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Cobra2 on January 07, 2007, 03:06:27 AM
Probably not....I've heard some wild stories about those three :o  :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on January 14, 2007, 09:53:57 PM
what do u mean cobra?
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Cobra2 on January 15, 2007, 10:43:44 PM
Like an M1A2 taking 2 RPGs, tons of RPK machine gun fire, and 3 T-72 shells and surviving.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Valiant1 on January 17, 2007, 05:59:42 AM
Cobra's right...there was this 1 Abrams that took 2 direct 125mm shells from 2 different T-72 and didn't phase it a bit. 
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Cobra2 on January 17, 2007, 07:05:53 AM
Yeah, pretty amazing.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on January 18, 2007, 07:48:01 AM
Would a Tiger II tank be able to take that much fire? considering its armour was like 100mm thick?
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Cobra2 on January 18, 2007, 10:30:54 PM
I thought it was 160-180? or is that the Panther IV? probably not from an Abrams, Leopard, Merkava. It could take alot of hits from a Sherman...5 Shermans to destroy one Tiger I and it had even less armor than the Tiger II.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Valiant1 on January 19, 2007, 03:34:19 PM
The Tiger II is no problem for the Abrams' and Leopard 2's smoothbore 120mm cannon, as well as no problem for the Challenger 2's 120mm rifled cannon.  They  fire SABOT rounds or as it is known by its nickname "silver bullet" and that slice through the Tiger 2's armor like it was butter.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on January 19, 2007, 06:55:37 PM
i dont know why ppl put the sherman in the best tanks category ,books, tv,whatever ,i think it sucks it was good against infantry like the german stug but agaisnt the other panzers......sure they made a lot of them and they were fast but their armor and guns????even the 76mm cannon wasnt much of a killing gun
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Cobra2 on January 20, 2007, 01:11:09 AM
Yeah...because of its speed and reliability....but everything else is crap.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: alyster on January 20, 2007, 01:26:45 AM
I think the Abrams' case is bit too extream. There is not a single tank in the world that has enough armour to be safe. Hizbullah blew up IDF Merkavas and these are not bad tanks. Why waste money on super tanks when a round from Carl-Gustav or some bit more expentsive missile can blow it up(but much cheaper then a tank), not to mention a A-10 or anything similar to it.

I know estonian small forces in iraq don't even like to use APCs on patrols, but prefer bit extra-armoured trucks. The APCs they say, are more deadly. It's how the forces effect the machine when a missile hits.

And as I said even Hizbullah was capable of blowing up world class tanks, not to mention someone like Iran or China.

Tanks are getting bit out of date. They were needed in WW1 to cover the attacks cause defensive weapondry was so much better then offensive. In WW2 they were also very good offensive weapondry, but I really can't understand what's there so much to do with them nowdays. All they do is blow up rebel buildings or suspicious cars on Iraqi highways....
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Cobra2 on January 20, 2007, 01:29:45 AM
I think we still very much need tanks.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Viggen on January 20, 2007, 03:49:26 AM
Yupp, we need a worldwide tanksgiving-day..  ;)
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Valiant1 on January 20, 2007, 07:52:32 PM
I see alyster's point, but tanks like the M1, Leopard 2 and Challenger 2 are very much needed.  Case in point -

One M1 got stuck in a ditch in Iraq and instead of abandoning it, the US Army decided to destroy it to keep it from falling into enemy hands. The remaining nine M1's surrounded it from only a 50-yard distance and opened fire using SABOT rounds.  Of the 9 SABOT rounds, ONLY 1 penetrated and that is because that specific area of the turret was hit a few times before it gave in.

Another one - a Challenger 2 was ambushed by Iraqi insurgents - a few RPG's and 2 anti-tank missiles were fired at it from close distance - didn't even put a dent in the armor.  The tank was up and running the following week.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: alyster on January 20, 2007, 08:11:51 PM
US is just lucky that Iraqi fighters don't have Kornets yet unlike Hizbullah. That would leave a mess.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on January 21, 2007, 02:34:33 AM
Tanks are the battleships of the land. Big, powerful, but becoming outdated. they have readched the pinnacle in the Abrams, Challenger 2, Merkava and Leopard. Sooner or later, they will be too outdated to have any use.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: alyster on January 21, 2007, 02:19:07 PM
India signed a 1B dollar deal with Russia for 300 T-90 tanks. Looks like Russia is going to hold it's first position in the world with arms export in 2007 also...
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Valiant1 on January 21, 2007, 06:40:59 PM
Tanks are not necessarily outdated, with better anti-tank missiles comes better tank armor.  It's gonna be like that.  Tanks, I believe will evolve and still be a viable force on the battelfield. 
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Cobra2 on January 21, 2007, 09:41:54 PM
Yeah, thats what I think.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: alyster on January 21, 2007, 10:18:46 PM
You can put anti-missile systems on tanks, but come on...the tanks are going up to 70 tonnes now. That's more than Tiger II. We're already reaching by tanks weights the super-heavy class.  How much armour are you willing to put on it and where will you take the engines?
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: terminator on January 22, 2007, 02:45:20 PM
alyster i also heard that the hindus will build their own type of the t-90 the t-90s bhishma cause the russkies gave them the technology and weapons systems ,and besides the 1 u mentioned they have placed another order on 310 t-90s and they plan to build 1000 of their bhishma and i cant believe that Algeria has like 300 t-90 tanks ,i agree that tanks are still needed but against other tanks against insurgents like in Iraq we need light vehicles, anyways is the 125mm smoothbore gun strong enough to penetrate the abrams or the leopard challenger,merkava.etc?
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Valiant1 on January 22, 2007, 07:46:49 PM
terminator, the 125mm is not strong enough to penetrate the M1, Challenger or Leopard. I don't know about the Merkava.  The T-90s would have to do what the Shermans did in WW2 against Tigers - shoot them from behind.  BUT, the M1s, Challengers and Leopards are so much quicker than the old Tigers that it would take a lot of luck and skill to get behind one of them.

I worked with a guy who was in the US Army and worked on M1s and he said that the "advertised" speed of the M1 is not 42mph, it's more like 85mph and faster.  The only reason why the top speed is 42mph is because the M1s are equipped with a built-in speed governor that prevents the M1 from going beyond 45mph or else the Allison transmission would shred to pieces.  He said the tank crews can actually get the M1 to 65mph without destroying the trans.  That's fast for a 70-ton vehicle!
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Cobra2 on January 23, 2007, 12:23:35 AM
Yeah.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: QT402 on July 17, 2007, 03:28:10 AM
China have interests far more than what you can see in the outside. It is athreat believe me. Before you know it, the US might be sorry. Instead of burgers we might be eating egg fu yong.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on July 17, 2007, 06:41:13 AM
Uh Huh. And yet, China has no way of getting to America. Their have no invasion fleet where as the US has the USMC, and if the the Chinese did theoretically (not likely) managed to invade America, do you honestly think that America would give up? They would most likely fight to the death, or do a scorched earth policy, After they nuke the crap out of China.

China hasnt got a plane with a long enough range to get to the US, and their missiles would be picked up the second their launched, and besides, Chinese missiles suck and would probably explode on take off.

The biggest threat to America is still terrorists, and it will be for a long time to come
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: RecceJet on July 17, 2007, 07:05:29 AM
Uh Huh. And yet, China has no way of getting to America. Their have no invasion fleet where as the US has the USMC, and if the the Chinese did theoretically (not likely) managed to invade America, do you honestly think that America would give up? They would most likely fight to the death, or do a scorched earth policy, After they nuke the crap out of China.

China hasnt got a plane with a long enough range to get to the US, and their missiles would be picked up the second their launched, and besides, Chinese missiles suck and would probably explode on take off.

The biggest threat to America is still terrorists, and it will be for a long time to come
Chinese designed missiles hit an Israeli Navy Saar 5 class vessel which has stealth design features. I think the latest Chinese missiles are quickly closing the technology gap. I think attention should also be given to the way the People's Liberation Army Navy has brought out "blue-water" warships recently with modern designs and weapon systems. The days the USA can hide behind a barrier of advanced weaponry are definitely numbered.

The US cannot do much if China decides to waltz in and take Taiwan. I seriously doubt the US ability to hold off any advance on Hawaii in the near future. Imagine how many resources you would use up if you had to engage hundreds of remotely controlled obsolete fighter aircraft just to get to the Flankers and long range air-to-surface missiles? Your radar might be able to target everything, but you might run out of things to throw at them.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: tigershark on July 17, 2007, 06:09:41 PM
China all the way there blue water navy is getting stronger all the time.   There already are a threat to other US assets in different parts of the world.   Future conflicts in the Middle East and Africa aren't far away and there need for oil is only second to the United States.  This alone will draw them into some sort of military conflict somewhere.   It's like two tough kids on the block that both want the same thing, a fight breaks out. 
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on July 18, 2007, 03:39:46 AM
But do you honestly think China will move? They've had HOW many chances over the last 50-ish years?
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: tigershark on July 23, 2007, 04:17:31 AM
I think they already have in Africa and are involved in about six or seven different countries there now.   In Asia there power is spreading government wise there learning how to play the game better then they ever did.  I don't feel they going to attack your country in the next five years but in ten or less their have the assets to do it.   
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on July 23, 2007, 08:47:43 AM
Do you realise how far and hard it would be for the PROC to attack Australia, invasion wise anyway?
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: RecceJet on July 23, 2007, 09:39:41 AM
Do you realise how far and hard it would be for the PROC to attack Australia, invasion wise anyway?
The Japanese made it that far in WW2. How big were they compared to modern China? Distance is a minor issue. Politics and economics play a more vital part.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Webmaster on July 24, 2007, 01:52:15 AM
I agree, China is more of an economic/political threat than military one, unless the USA seriously pisses them off somehow or declares war on China, e.g. for attacking US allies in the region. However, the USA is China's biggest export market as far as I know, and it will remain so for some time. China is growing thanks to this, and they'd be crazy to risk an economic embargo or any war with their biggest trade partner. The US would respond at least on politcal and economical level when China decides to invade Taiwan, so China probably won't do that until they don't need the US anymore and get imperialistic. But of course, that may not take long or a lot...

Iran is a threat to the region... Israel + oil... then terrorists, so it's the biggest threat to US interests... especially with this nuclear program. Not that I think a resulting nuclear weapon would be a threat to the USA itself, but the results of a US(-led) or Israeli pre-emptive strike...

But if the US/Russia relation turns sour and cold again, Russia might become the biggest 'visible' military threat to US/NATO again, while China meanwhile takes over the role of world superpower.

I wish I could see into the future though, haha.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on July 24, 2007, 08:19:42 AM
Do you realise how far and hard it would be for the PROC to attack Australia, invasion wise anyway?
The Japanese made it that far in WW2. How big were they compared to modern China? Distance is a minor issue. Politics and economics play a more vital part.

Japan had an acutal navy that gave them the power to attack Australia

Does China have Aircraft Carriers (working ones anyway)
Do they have a proper naval airforce?

No they dont..
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: tigershark on July 24, 2007, 03:44:47 PM
Gripen
Think a little differently look at the countries around yours that China is friendly with or might in the future control?  The attack or attacks might come from more then one source and just just directly from China.    China's governments power in the region will grow and their force there way into certain governments.   It will start with China will invest millions of dollars into a country's economy for allowing a naval base to be build.  Next a air base and then small amounts of troops not far after that the host country has little power to really do anything.  Now imagine that happening in five or six places near your country you see where I'm going with this.   Of course to do this China would either think your military is a threat or a natural resource it wants.   
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: RecceJet on July 24, 2007, 04:28:05 PM
Do you realise how far and hard it would be for the PROC to attack Australia, invasion wise anyway?
The Japanese made it that far in WW2. How big were they compared to modern China? Distance is a minor issue. Politics and economics play a more vital part.

Japan had an acutal navy that gave them the power to attack Australia

Does China have Aircraft Carriers (working ones anyway)
Do they have a proper naval airforce?

No they dont..
You obviously haven't seen the PLAAN order of battle recently. They have a far bigger navy than the RAN does, and you don't need just a navy to attack. They have more than enough troops to drop and planes to fly. But this is all irrelevant when you consider the economical and political aspects. I agree that China is more likely to enforce their interests by proxy instead of direct military force. They already have a strong influence in the Pacific region and in Africa.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on July 25, 2007, 08:01:26 AM
ergh.

Why Would china do anything?

the second they do the US will hit them with everything they have, China will be destroyed.

Its stupid and pointless. It wont happen. the worst they could do is stop their exports and make everyone else make things thmselves. if you honestly think they will attack then your an idiot
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: RecceJet on July 25, 2007, 08:46:36 AM
ergh.

Why Would china do anything?

the second they do the US will hit them with everything they have, China will be destroyed.

Its stupid and pointless. It wont happen. the worst they could do is stop their exports and make everyone else make things thmselves. if you honestly think they will attack then your an idiot
This is how kids are taught to think in school today? Let's leave the opinions about who is an idiot out of the discussion.

If anyone honestly thinks China is moving towards readying their forces to make any attack, that person might know something a high-school student does not. Calling him or her an idiot because their logic doesn't compute with your's is hardly the basis for being an idiot.

Gripen, I don't see your points in this last post to be worth responding to, and if anything it has stopped the discussion. I, personally, was hoping for a more mature debate or sharing of ideas on the topic.
Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Gripen on July 25, 2007, 09:27:59 AM
A: IM NOT IN HIGH SCHOOL
B: I KNOW SOMEONE WHO WORKS FOR ASIS. THEY KNOW WHAT CHINA CAN DO
C: DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT I WAS CALLING YOU THE IDIOT REECEJET?

Title: Re: Threat to America
Post by: Raptor on August 25, 2007, 12:48:25 PM
Ahm... Didn't want to get caught in this disscussion. *wince*... But it does stand that China has an extremely large and versatile arsenal. You have to remember they have centuries of experience in predicting other general's or world leader's moves. I'm with reccejet on this. Unless you have anything to say, Grip? China nationals are not allowed out of the country except in tour groups, OR on the guaruntee of another person from the country they are going to visit that that same person WILL return. Blowing up the US will only show that they have much better hardware than the folks in the US have. And that will most likely serve to encourage people to buy solid objects from China. I say not food or medicines. I think most of you know why.

The fact that they crack down so hard on security is saying something. If they can build such an immense arsenal while their social economy rots away, it most likely signifies something, don't you think? I personally know people who live in china, people who visit China on a regular basis, and of course, this guys who knows this guy from the military in China. They may not be officially beginning to prepare for war, but who knows? It won't make a big difference to them. They have a larger population than Russia. They can handle mass decimation.