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Author Topic: (Airforce) Ground Crew sucked in Jet Engine?  (Read 3151 times)

Offline ilikef4

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(Airforce) Ground Crew sucked in Jet Engine?
« on: March 07, 2017, 01:01:37 AM »
First of all, I am very pleased to have an opportunity to make question in this website in which a lot of members have expert knowledge.

I saw the video that A-6 intruder suck in the ground crew by running the jet engine. (luckily, he survived with some minor injuries) 

I like military fighter/attacker jet for a long time, but I did not know that jet engines can be such a danger to ground crew members. (even it happens to ground crew of commercial airline)

I search a little bit and found that this kind of ‘ground crew member sucked in’ accident occurs (even though not often).

Is there any safety device attached to the jet engine to prevent any ‘suck in’ accident?

For example, if some kind of ‘mesh’ is installed in the front of the engine, the person or object can be prevented to be suck in, while air intake is still working through mesh.

I believe that this kind of protection is necessary not only preventing the safety of ground crew, but also protect the aircraft engine itself from ‘birds sucking in’ during flight.

In this point of view, I would like to ask several questions.

1.   This ‘suck in’ incident still ongoing in these days? I see that F-22 or F-16 have air intake in the lower part of the plane and it will be even more dangerous to ground crews ‘sucked in’. Any preventive method or device?

2.   Since I like F-4 phantom very much, does F-4 have any ‘prevention’ method or device for suck in? since F-4 has air intake at the side of the flight body and it is located higher relatively to F -16’s air intake, does this make any difference that ground crew is safer? (which means harder to be sucked in?) 

3.   I saw the picture of air intake of F-4 and the fan is small. Is this fan really capable to kill the ground crew when they get accidentally sucked in?

Thank you in advance to share you expert knowledge.   
 

Offline Phixer

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Re: (Airforce) Ground Crew sucked in Jet Engine?
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2017, 11:47:09 AM »
Working around aircraft is hazardous and the chance of getting sucked into an air intake is a reality in everyday aviation. I worked on the F-4N and F-4S, the A-7E aircraft while serving in the Navy.
There is protection from being sucked into an intake for maintenance engine turns. But not for launch and recovery.
For a maintenance turn a set or a single intake screen is attached to the intake opening to protect the engine from FOD (foreign object damage) but at higher throttle settings it's still possible for ground crew to be sucked up to the screen. 
Hope this helps
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 07:17:43 PM by Phixer »

Offline Webmaster

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Re: (Airforce) Ground Crew sucked in Jet Engine?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2017, 03:01:49 PM »
The MiG-29 with its low belly intakes has a FOD guard/mesh that's almost completely closed, with vents on the top opening up.
The Su-27 partially closes the intake and has a mesh, vents on the bottom open up to let additional air in.
In both cases the vents can also open to let more air in when more airflow is needed (when increasing thrust at low airspeeds).

The guard/meshes are really designed to prevent FOD, in particular for unprepared or rough ("just Russian") airfields, not necessarily a safety feature for the ground crews.

Anyway, thought this would be interesting to add.
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Re: (Airforce) Ground Crew sucked in Jet Engine?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2017, 03:38:19 PM »
By the way welcome to the forum for the both of you! And Phixer, thank you for providing the insightful answer, always good to have people with experience on the board.
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Offline ilikef4

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Re: (Airforce) Ground Crew sucked in Jet Engine?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2017, 08:22:09 AM »
Working around aircraft is hazardous and the chance of getting sucked into an air intake is a reality in everyday aviation. I worked on the F-4N and F-4S, the A-7E aircraft while serving in the Navy.
There is protection from being sucked into an intake for maintenance engine turns. But not for launch and recovery.
For a maintenance turn a set or a single intake screen is attached to the intake opening to protect the engine from FOD (foreign object damage) but at higher throttle settings it's still possible for ground crew to be sucked up to the screen. 
Hope this helps

thank you for both of you (Phixer and Webmaster)

to Phixer.

thank you for sharing the expert knowledge and thank you for your service!

based on the information, it is good to have at least some kind of protection to ground crew (screen attached to intake opening during maintenance).

then i think i can conclude this way. please correct me if i am wrong.

1. F-4 comes back to aircraft carrier after patrol fly / operation
2.  F-4 takes maintenance turn
3. before starting the maintenance turn, screen is attached to air intake opening to prevent FOD (including protection for ground crew)
4. Screen is being attached during entire maintenece process
5. F-4 is about to be back to patrol fly/operation.
6. screen is detached before take off. then F-4 take off for flying.

i am very interested in the procedure and i would be glad if you can confirm the procedure i enumerated above is correct.

if my assumption above is correct, it seems that the most dagerous time is 'right before taking off'  on catapult since the engine runs in high capacity and still ground crew work for setting the taking off near the plane. 

regards

   

Offline Phixer

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Re: (Airforce) Ground Crew sucked in Jet Engine?
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2017, 04:48:18 PM »
Working around aircraft is hazardous and the chance of getting sucked into an air intake is a reality in everyday aviation. I worked on the F-4N and F-4S, the A-7E aircraft while serving in the Navy.
There is protection from being sucked into an intake for maintenance engine turns. But not for launch and recovery.
For a maintenance turn a set or a single intake screen is attached to the intake opening to protect the engine from FOD (foreign object damage) but at higher throttle settings it's still possible for ground crew to be sucked up to the screen. 
Hope this helps

That's correct, I was an engine operator for my shop. Before attaching the screens I would "dive" the intake/s to inspect for FOD and turbine blades were not chipped, cracked and no blades were missing. Then I would climb out of the intake and hang the screen/s. If it's to be placed back on the flight schedule immediately it's ready for the pilot and RIO (radar intercept officer) if not intake covers would be pushed on the intake openings. This is done to prevent FOD getting in or birds or insects from building a nest.

One thing to remember is the flight deck of a carrier is nothing like land based flight ops.
 More aircraft, jet, propeller and helos in close proximity of each other.  The possibility of being blown into support equipment, another aircraft or over the side by jet blast or prop or rotor wash can and has happened. Night operations is a completely different world altogether.
Working the flight deck is one of the most exciting things I've ever done.
thank you for both of you (Phixer and Webmaster)

to Phixer.

thank you for sharing the expert knowledge and thank you for your service!

based on the information, it is good to have at least some kind of protection to ground crew (screen attached to intake opening during maintenance).

then i think i can conclude this way. please correct me if i am wrong.

1. F-4 comes back to aircraft carrier after patrol fly / operation
2.  F-4 takes maintenance turn
3. before starting the maintenance turn, screen is attached to air intake opening to prevent FOD (including protection for ground crew)
4. Screen is being attached during entire maintenece process
5. F-4 is about to be back to patrol fly/operation.
6. screen is detached before take off. then F-4 take off for flying.

i am very interested in the procedure and i would be glad if you can confirm the procedure i enumerated above is correct.

if my assumption above is correct, it seems that the most dagerous time is 'right before taking off'  on catapult since the engine runs in high capacity and still ground crew work for setting the taking off near the plane. 

regards

 

Offline SukhoiLover

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Re: (Airforce) Ground Crew sucked in Jet Engine?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2017, 04:59:34 AM »
The best way to prevent being sucked in is to just stay the heck out of the hazardous zone.

....yeah, I´m  still alive.....
http://sukhoitribute.blogspot.com/

English version: http://sukhoitributeenglish.blogspot.com/


Pavel be proud of your legacy!!!!

 



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