Canadian F-35?

[Flanker.94]

Guys, is somebody here from Canada? I don't know if Canada will buy the F-35.

[Globetrotter]

I am not Canadian, but may I express an oppinion on the matter?

In case the answe is yes ( ), then I think you don't really need it. The F-18 are fine, and I believe Canada is a very pacific country, and doesn't have many borders to take care of

[tigershark]

Hi Flanker.94
I found some info I'll attach a few links but after reading a little of it and from looking at other sites I think there apart of it now.  Hope it  was helpful.

http://www.ploughshares.ca/libraries/monitor/monj02f.html

This is only part
       The Ploughshares Monitor

Summer 2002, volume 23, no. 2

Spotlight on military procurement: Canada and the Joint Strike Fighter Program

By Ken Epps

Canada has joined the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program to provide the Canadian aerospace industry with access to the largest military procurement program in US history. Industrial participation may be the first step to a Canadian order for the combat aircraft.

In a Washington ceremony in February 2002, the Canadian government joined the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program as a "Level Three" international partner. A Memorandum of Understanding signed with the US and the UK at the ceremony committed Canada to funding and services for the JSF totalling more than US $150 million. The commitments include US $100 million from the Department of National Defence (DND), US $50 million from Technology Partnerships Canada (TPC) – an industrial subsidy program of Industry Canada – and the services of the Canadian Commercial Corporation and Canadian test and evaluation sites. Under terms of the TPC program, Canadian aerospace industries also will be expected to invest in JSF development, although the extent of these investments has not been determined.1 In return, Canada will participate in the System Development and Demonstration phase of the JSF program, with the Canadian government awarded one position out of 152 in the JSF program office. More significantly, Canadian industry will be allowed to compete for JSF contracts which government and industry officials claim could total US $500 to $600 million during this development phase alone.



Canada, Australia, U.K. Sign Joint Strike Fighter Agreements
by SOPnewswire
Posted December 13, 2006
1 votes / Avg. Vote : 5.001 votes / Avg. Vote : 5.001 votes / Avg. Vote : 5.001 votes / Avg. Vote : 5.001 votes / Avg. Vote : 5.00

WASHINGTON, Dec. 12, 2006 – With the first flight of the Joint Strike Fighter set for this week, Canada, the United Kingdom and Australia have “re-enlisted” for the program.

Canada signed on for the project’s production, sustainment and follow-on development phase during a Pentagon ceremony here yesterday. Australia signed on today as part of the U.S.-Australia ministerial meetings at the State Department, and the United Kingdom signed at a Pentagon ceremony today.

The Joint Strike Fighter is the Defense Department’s program for a “multi-role” stealth air-to-ground strike aircraft. The Navy, Air Force, Marines and allies are developing the system together.

Canadian Deputy Defense Minister Ward Elcock and U.S. Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England signed a memorandum of understanding that calls on Canada to pledge $150 million toward production of the Joint Strike Fighter. Canada already has contributed $150 million to the system-development and demonstration portion of the program.

“This is a very special event, because it is a very special partnership,” England said during the ceremony. “The United States and Canada share the strongest possible bonds of friendship, family and fundamental values, as well as a common border.”

“The Joint Strike Fighter program represents a revolutionary approach to both aircraft development and international armaments cooperation,” Elcock said. “It brings together expertise from many different countries and is, as a result, the single largest fighter aircraft program in the world.”

The United Kingdom has been involved with the Joint Strike Fighter program since its inception 10 years ago and is in to the program to the tune of $2 billion. United Kingdom Minister for Defense Procurement Lord Peter Drayson signed a memorandum of understanding early today in the Pentagon.

The deputy defense secretary thanked his British counterpart and praised the way American and British forces work together. “We've had this relationship for a long, long time,” England said. “Our forces are engaged today. As we sign this, there's people out there defending freedom together. They do it every day, shoulder to shoulder, and it's the same way our nations are shoulder to shoulder. I'm just delighted that we have brought this to a conclusion today. We look forward to a long relationship with the Joint Strike Fighter program.”

The British plan for a total buy of up to 150 short-take-off-and-vertical-landing versions of the aircraft for use on two future aircraft carriers.

Canada also is making a substantial investment in the Joint Strike Fighter program. The Canadians plan to buy 80 F-35 conventional-take-off-and-landing aircraft to replace its CF-18 aircraft. The program, led by Lockheed-Martin, will build three variants of the fighter: a conventional model, a carrier model, and a vertical-take-off-and-landing model. The United States has dubbed the aircraft the F-35 Lightning 2. The Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps will use the three aircraft variants. The F-35 will replace the Air Force’s F-16 Falcon, the Navy’s and Marine Corps’ F/A-18 Hornet, and the Marines’ AV-8B Harrier.

Elcock stressed that the program demonstrates how well the United States and Canada can work together. “The program will allow the United States and Canada to continue to benefit from each others’ wealth of technology and expertise,” he said.

Canada expects to retire its CF-18 fleet sometime after 2017, Elcock said. “Canada needs to explore what it needs from the next generation of fighter aircraft,” he said. “Our continued involvement in this project will help us determine our future fighter requirements for the Canadian Forces. Certainly, one capability we know we want to have is interoperability with the United States and our allies.”

Australian Defense Minister Brendan Nelson signed the memorandum during a ceremony at the U.S. State Department today. “It is an extremely important day for Australia and our air-defense capability,” Nelson said. “The Joint Strike Fighter is most certainly the correct aircraft for Australia in terms of air-to-air combat and its strike capabilities.

“It will see Australia through the next 30 to 40 years. It is a state-of-the-art aircraft, and we look forward very much to the imminent first flight.”

Other international partners participating in the program are: the Netherlands, Italy, Turkey, Denmark and Norway. Other nations, including Singapore and Israel, have expressed interest in the program.

Officials say plans call for building more than 2,400 F-35 aircraft by 2027.

http://www.thesop.org/index.php?id=3370

[Raptor]

Sweet. What's the obsession with the JSF, then?

And oh, yes. You can forget the Singapore-expressing-interest bit. It's a stealth plane, right? Stealth can be used to sneak into someone else's country and drop a bomb with no one the wiser, right? Forget it. Too much political turbulence. There was a big argument about our purchasing the E-2Cs, 'cos Indonesia and Malaysia blah blah didn't want us to know if they were going to attack us. I mean, like, protesting that's we're defending ourselves? That's lame. So do you think they won't argue with us buying a stealth plane?

[RecceJet]

Isn't Singapore already on board for the JSF project at the same level as Israel?

[Webmaster]

Yep, both are noncontributing "security cooperation partners". Which basically means they have observer status and will be "served" before non-partner countries, if they decide to buy, but doesn't give them industrial participation or any input on requirements/development. They paid about USD 20 million for the status.

But Israel is not happy about the possible non-modification clause.

Raptor, it's all about "regional stability" perceptions/arguments... Israel wants F-35/F-22 because Arab nations are buying the latest Russian jets and are supplied with US jets, as an ally to the US they can use the regional stability argument. Same is happening between Pakistan and India, every US sale to one country needs to be offset by another sale to the other to keep both happy. So Singapore will of course be interested in the JSF, because Indonesia, Vietnam and Malaysia are buying Su-30 Flankers with AMRAAMski.

[Gripen]

*sigh*

Why cant the world go back to having spitfires and mustangs?

[Raptor]

Because, Gripen, some folks will play dirty and use guided missiles.

Hm. You're right there, webmaster, but i still think it's all about politics.

[Webmaster]

*sigh*

Why cant the world go back to having spitfires and mustangs?

I have a better idea, let us get back on topic: Canada and the JSF

If Canada wants to continue its current NATO contribution, in strong or stronger cooperation with the USA, the F-35 makes sense. The Hornets are upgraded now, which makes them fine until then, but not beyond.

The $150 million investment would give $500-600 million return in the first phase....did it? anyone?

(last thing I heard over here... Netherlands lvl.II, was that the $1 billion investment here of the first phase, had brought in something between $1 and $2 billion of orders in? And I think even as low as $1.3 billion or something)

[Flanker.94]

I'm not sure, but I think that Canada is just contribuing to the JSF project. Am I wrong?

I also heard that a F-35 has landed in Ottawa.

[valkyrian]

Canada is closer geographicaly to the U.S. and this is enough to effect any decision. I don't think that Canada will really need the F-35. Who is threating Canada to need a stealthy Bomber?fighter? (i put first the word Bomber in purpose). After all, the role of Canadian air force was to defend North America from the invasion of Russian bombers. Question : is the F-35 more capable in this role than the EF-2000 or the Rafale? Answer : Of course no. Politically speaking, the EF-2000 is an (among the others) English made airplane and the Rafale, a French one (i refer this because Canada has strong relations both with the english and both with the french. So, i think that one of the two eurocanards is the best solution, both tactically and diplomatically. Now will the U.S. show their dissapointment in case Canada rejects the F-35? Of course. But after all, for many years Canadians have paid the American aero industry. So, they must not complain....
As a good friend from America would say, ".....just my two cents...."

[Raptor]

Never thought of that. But seeing Canada is such a bystander in the wars... (You can see from the air-forces most of their aces flew in that they never did much in WWII, although some contribution was there...) they wouldn't really need an aggressor-role fighter/bomber...

And since if anyone attacked them, all they would have to do would be hold off the enemy until the US arrives with a nice fat a/c carrier, after which all the political crap happens then US will decide to attack the opposing country for the good of the world.
Aren't we getting a bit too reliant on that superpower?

But back to topic, all Canada needs is a plane that's good at shooting down other planes/