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Author Topic: cobra v/s mi-25/35  (Read 13234 times)

Offline sky

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cobra v/s mi-25/35
« on: May 30, 2005, 05:24:18 PM »
hi i need to know reg which combat helicopers is better.

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Re: cobra v/s mi-25/35
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2005, 12:04:13 PM »
This largely depends on the version, which determines the weapons. Main thing is that the Hind is heavy and large, but can carry troops. The Cobra is light and small, doesn't carry troops, but can operate from an aircraft carrier. I think you started this topic with the Paki Cobra and Indian Hind in mind.

Pakistan
The AH-1F Cobras were acquired in the mid 1980s, of 20 delivered, about 18 remain in service. In 2004 it was reported Pakistan could get about 40 ex-US Army AH-1Fs, but I haven't seen any delivery reports. Armament consists of TOW-2 launchers and 2.75 inch rockets, and the 20mm gun. They've seen action in 2003/2004 against Al-Qaeda/Taliban in the area along the border with Afghanistan.

India
India acquired their first batch of Mi-25s in late 1984. They first saw action in 1987 against the Pakistan Army. And in 1987-1989 the Mi-25/35s were successfully deployed against the Tamil Tigers while on Peacekeeping mission in Sri Lanka. 25 Hinds were upgraded by IAI after contract signed in 1998. The upgrade includes new mission computer, Taman night targeting system (same as on AH-1W and Israeli Cobra) with TV and FLIR sensors. NVG cockpit with MFD for the targeting. Shturm-V ATGM  remains its main armament, although integrated with the Taman system. India didn't order more advanced guided weapons, since the proven Shturm missile is still highly effective against older MBTs, such as the Chinese Type 59/60 still in service including Pakistan. The Indian developed Nag ATMG might be implemented in the near future. Other upgrades include GPS, helmet mounted sensor, chaff/flare and Elta warning systems.

Air-to-Air: Hind vs Cobra
I moved this topic, because I didn't think the comparison should not be based only on air-to-air combat. But I found some info. The Hind has a higher speed and rate of climb. The Cobra has better manoeuvrability, especially at low speed, which means it can out turn the Hind and make the kill. They did encounter eachother in the air defense role in East Germany. Although most often friendly flying along eachother, on one occasion it turned into disaster. The AH-1G came close to the border and the Hind was scrambled to intercept it. The Cobra followed the border by repeatedly acceleration and pitch up sharply to bleed off speed. The Hind had a tough time staying on the Cobra. And determined to stay with it this time, the Hind followed the Cobra in its pitch up, the Hind started to tumble. The pilot put the Hind into a dive to gain forward speed, but was too low and crashed, killing the crew.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2005, 12:08:47 PM by Webmaster »
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elias_b

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Re: cobra v/s mi-25/35
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2005, 06:05:20 PM »
Totally, Inda has some 32 Hinds in service, 20 to 25 were upgraded by Israel, as the Webmaster said.
But as the Mi-25 is the export version of the Mi-24D, it should be only equipped with the elderly AT-2 Swatter AT-Missile. With this in mind, I think that only the Mi-35 (export version of Mi-24V) were upgraded.

Offline orko_8

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Re: cobra v/s mi-25/35
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2005, 02:05:21 PM »
Both helicopters are the results of different requirements, concepts and doctrines.

USA had an urgent need for an armed attack and escort helicopter in Vietnam, and Bell had designed Cobra upon the transmission system of famous workhorse UH-1 Huey in a surprisingly short period of time. Cobra family of attack helicopters saw extensive modification and modernization througout their service lives, the last member of the family being AH-1Z King Cobra.

One of the main roles of Cobra was to stop the large fleet of Warsaw Pact armored vehicles in Europe. It is a relatively easy and cheap helicopter to maintain, repair and fly, but at the same time it's targeting systems and avionics are relatively modern (especially in the later versions, AH-1W for example)

Cobra's thin body and low silhouette makes it more difficult to spot and shoot, it's flight characteristics are also exceptional.

Mil Mi-24 Hind is the result of a specific doctrine which implies combined armored-heliborne operations. It thus can carry 8 troops and a heavy load of weaponry. Mi-24 found a good market and can be found almost everywhere in the world. Mi-24 also saw extensive modifications, the latest version is Mi-35. In terms of avionics and targeting & navigation equipment, I think that Hind is not as sophisticated as Cobra (especially Super Cobra). But it can carry heavier weapon loads and fly longer . On the other hand it's rather heavy for an attack helicopter, its maneoverability is not as good as Cobra.

Requirements dictate solutions.. If I was a procurement authority and was seeking an attack helicopter for low-intensity / assymmetric warfare, I would probably choose the Cobra. On the other hand Mi-24/35 offers another solution (with its troop carrying capability)..

Regards

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Re: cobra v/s mi-25/35
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2005, 11:48:08 AM »
Sure, in almost any vs. thread the differences can be explained by requirements and doctrine. A good example of this is also the Tornado F.3 compared to other fighters, as is often done on other forums.

The Mi-35 is the export designation for the Mi-24V, it is not the latest variant. Mi-35s have been delivered outside the USSR from 1988 onwards. Later variants are the Mi-24VP (last production variant with 23mm movable gun developed 1985, production 1989, 25 produced) and its export version the Mi-35P, then there are all the upgrades.

Mi-35P, new-build or refurbished, export version of the Mi-24VP, exported to several African countries. Zimbabwe (1998, night upgrade 2000) and Cyprus (delivered 2001-2003) ordered upgaded night-capable Mi-35Ps.

The upgrades:
Russian Upgrade blocks (1-5) offered by Mil and Rosvertol, promoted in 1999
Mi-35M upgrade proposal by Mil and Rosvertol, incorporating the upgrade blocks, cancelled 1997
Mi-24VK-1 interim upgrade for Mi-24V
Mi-24M (Mi-24VK-2) definitive upgrade by Mil based on Mi-24VK-1 but with new optronics.
Mi-24PM (Mi-24PK-2) definitive upgrade by Rosvertol based on Mi-24VK-1
Mi-24PN, Russian lowcost upgrade adding night capability (first few delivered in early 2004, Uganda showed interest)
Mi-24PN-2, Mi-24PN upgrade with also a new rotor system.
IAI Taman 'Mission 24' Mi-24 upgrade (IAF)
SAGEM (reportedly Uzbekistan AF contract in 2001 for 12 Mi-24P)
BAE/Eurocopter (reportedly selected by Poland in 2004, but little progress since Feb 2004 because of difficulties on agreements with Russia, same reason the V4 upgrade programme failed)
ATE Super Hind Mk.II (limited upgrade, based on Mi-35P)
ATE Super Hind Mk.III (based on Mi-24V, Algeria bought 40 in 1999, deliveries started in 2000)

These last upgrades by ATE are reportedly not authorized and thus not supported by Mil/Rosvertol
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Offline Raptor

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Re: cobra v/s mi-25/35
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2006, 11:03:21 AM »
Hm. Russian Helos are strange. Don't really know much about Russian choppers, but i'm greatly enlightened now.

What about Kamov??????
-JCLim

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Re: cobra v/s mi-25/35
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2006, 11:21:17 AM »
ooh wat bout kasatka?

Offline Raptor

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Re: cobra v/s mi-25/35
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2006, 11:35:23 AM »
What about about a million different design and build teams?
-JCLim

 



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