Mirage 2000s and F-16s common partners?!

[osuorsa]

I've thought this much, why some nations have two very similar purpose figters in their inventory? At least Greece, Taiwan and UAE have them both, the F-16 and the Mirage 2000 in their inventory. Do you have any ideas why it is so?

[valkyrian]

Hi osuorsa! As u can understand from the flag in my avatar, i will talk about Greece.

In the early 80's Greek goverment decided to buy no less than 120 new fighters. Tornado, F-18L, F-16A and Mirage 2000 were evaluated. Some sources state that the F-18L was the fighter of choice, but in the end we end up buying 40 Falcons and 40 Mirages....

The decision, officialy, was based on the fact, that in a possible conflict with Turkey, another NATO partner, the US could embargo Greece, as this has been the case in the 1974 Turkish invasion in Cyprus. So, for Greece having 2 different (totally) sources of fighters, meant that at least at a possible embargo we could still operate the French fighters...

Also, in the tactical level, having 2 types, confuses the enemy. We knew that Turkey was about to buy Falcons. So, they would know the weakness of this plane, but they couldn't tell about the M2000. This proved of vital importance in the following years....

On the other side, supporting logistically 2 types, is costly. Also, the number of the fighters wasn't sufficient enough to let for a domestic production line. It is clearly different to set up a prod line for 80 units and another thing for 40. Eventually we bought another 120 Falcons, but the shortsightness of our politicians, didn't let them to see that the need for a production line was of vital importance.

Overall, you can see that there are somethings you gain and somethings you loose. By the way, the 2 fighters, although they are considered in the same category, each one has certain advantages...for example, matra magic II was far more superior than the AIM9L and it could be launched even when the M2000 was pulling 9 g's, something the -L couldn't . (some nations put magics on their Falcons). Also, the MICA was better than th AIM-120A, and overall the M2000 was better in high and fast interception.

Personally, i believe that we made the right choice. 2 of the finest of their time. But i always wondered what would be if we operated the F-18L, a lighter , more maneuvrable Hornet...

[tigershark]

The threat of a US embargo on the Vipers Taiwan bought were the reason for them going with the Mirage 2000-5 as well.   The  purchase was two folded and in the end cost Taiwan much more.   The purchase was also used get more Vipers from the US too and pull the restrictions that came with the aircraft sale.   No AIM-120s included at first and problems getting follow up aircraft because of the Chinese pressure at the time.   Taiwan paid much more per aircraft and had to pay extra to upgrade the French radar because it lack capabilities to track low flying cruise missiles.   I read in this other forum that the Taiwan Mirages are more costly to operate per flight hour then the Vipers as well .    I can't back that statement up with a link sorry maybe somebody heard the same and can provide more information on that.    The UAE invested in the R&D for the ASEA radar in their Block-60 and really bought the most advance Viper built maybe better then the Israeli models in certain ways.    The Mirage 2000-5 and two seat 9 type basically built for the UAE air force was the main selling point I believe.   It was a political choice for buying both and the Mirages were delivered first but the 9 could fire the French air launched cruise missile, that was the key.   The UAE were short pilots to fill both types at one point and still need a advance training.  I'm looking for it now and know I save the article some place but I'm pretty sure the Vipers get used more.   In one of the endless Indian aircraft purchases that lead to nothing a rumor was going around that they would buy some of the UAE's Mirage 2000-5s.   Landing both aircraft contracts from a oil heavy country like the UAE was big for the French and American aircraft industry at the time.   France was hurting for sales and I'm sure R&d invested in the F-16 Viper help hurry along ASEA radar for the US, both countries gained.     

[Icarus]

What my fellow Greek said !

As an addition, Greece is upgrading some Mirages too -5 status too, so this means they are at least on par with the latest anything both countries have. In that sense, the Mirage is a hidden ace, as the opponents don't have an exact knowledge of the aircraft and its true capabilities and tactics, making the battlefield for them much more diverse - while F-16s and upgraded Phantoms are known to both sides, the Mirage is not. This story began just after the invasion of Cyprus, as Valkyrian said, when we got the F-1CG. From what I've heard, pilots loved it, and loved the "dilitro" as well.

Valk, do you have any info when it comes to Peace Icarus 2000 ? I know that the Phantoms got the APG-73 radar, so at this regime, it is the closer we would get to the F/A-18L

[osuorsa]

Ok, I'm finally back from my five week vacation in around West Europe. Nice to see that you guys have answered to this question and I'm very thankfull for how well you guys did it! Thanks. Fine answers and now I can understand the situation.

2Valkyrian - You're wondering how would it have been if Greece would have bought the Hornet. Well Finland has 62 of them and I can say that the pilots are very pleased of the plane. One main thing in Finland that ultimately led to the choice to buy the Hornet was that it has two engines. And due of that, it has more survivability than the other two, (F-16 and M2000) which were also considered by Finland. All the three are in the same category in the terms of agility but the M2000 and the F-16 have the speed advantage. In high speeds the M2000 may be the most agile thus the Hornet surpasses both in slower speeds. Hornet is the best suoted one for multirole missions becouse it was from the outset designed to handle A-A and A-G and sea jobs.  So everythinh in the Hornet is designed and ready for both unlike in the case of the other two.

[Webmaster]

Welcome back!

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