J-10

[tigershark]

Valiant1
the Eagle set many standards as the air superiority fighter that all others are measured by. 
>I agree 110 percent

Valiant1
the Flanker has been outclassed by fighters such as the Typhoon, the Gripen and the Raptor.
Going by what pilots say in many forums Typhoon yes, Raptor - Flanker or just about any aircraft is out classed vs Raptor.   Gripen I'll be honest I know the least about this fighter then any.  But I would think the larger scanner on the Flankers radar would give him a edge because he would see the Gripen first and maybe get into a firing position that suites him better?   One on one which wouldn't happen really in real life the Flanker has huge amounts of fuel could pick and chose when to enter the battle and leave the battle.  This is an area where F-15s have an edge on Vipers too + larger scanner.   In close I would assume a Gripen would eat up a larger Flanker, Flankers are bigger then F-14s.   Valiant1 do you know a web site where I can read about Gripen's going up against other types?  In training or mock up or even FX Bids?  I would like to learn more about this fighter, thanks.

I have reason to believe the US Air Force has a Flanker and they are using it to compare against the Eagle.  I have a feeling this is where they have created tactics against it.
> I agree the US must have tactics for dealing with Flankers or there would have been a F-15 replacement long before the F-22.   I read in this other forum that a F/A-18 Hornet E/F with ASEA radar Slammer/X9 combo could hold it own and most likely get the first shot off.   At some point I'm sure the fuel state plays a part in any Hornet vs battle but there's other factors as well.   I think the US can jam Russian missiles to a point and have other I'll call them special tricks to keep the enemies missiles on there rails a little longer, but can't prove this.   

[b]Globetrotter
Well, I heards that they have beaten even the -30MKI.[/b]
> I have read in the Chinese forums that the J-10 beats all the Chinese versions Su-30/J-11B as well but never the Indian version Su-30 MKI, this version has Israeli/French equipment and is a different beast all together plus other goodies.    These two aircraft J-10 & Su-30 MKI have never seen each other so I think you have the types mixed up a little.   

Valiant1
I agree with a lot of your views in general and about the F-15, and more should have been invested in this type before casting it to the side in favor of the F-22.   There will be many missions for years to come for F-15/16 type aircraft and the US should have produced a aircraft in between the F-15 and F22, sort of in the Typhoon class.   The F-35 is still many years away from going active and just can't see the air force using F-22s or future F-35s like they use F-16s now.   A modern version of an F-15 with advance systems would have fit the bill for years to come.   A design that could beat a Flanker hands down without thinking and be a little better in close would be perfect.   

[Valiant1]

Well nonpilot,

That version of the F-15 is just around the corner. 

Helmet mounted sight
AIM-9X Sidewinder off-bore AA missile
AMRAAM missiles (which is in use)
APG-63 radar (correct me if I'm wrong)

Now, what the Eagle needs is a version of the Raptor's 35,000 lb thrust F119 engines w/3 dimensional thrust vectoring for even much better maneuvering during a dogfight.  Plus the USAF should build several more airframes and implement a digital fly-by-wire system and you'll have an Eagle that can take on the latest Flankers.
Even in statistics, the Su-37 Terminator only held and 1.5 to 1 kill ratio against an F-15C, pilots being equal.   So even the Sukhoi, with its fly-by-wire, forward canards, more powerful engines and thrust vectoring can't even score a lop-sided victory against the Eagle.

The US definitely has a Flanker in their hands, I can't even imagine how they would come up with tactics to beat it. 

For example, in WW2, the US found a Japanese Zero ditched in an island and was sent back to the US.  They evaluated it, found its strengths and weaknesses and developed tactics to beat it .

I'm a hot rodder at heart - bigger engine, more power, yada yada yada.

[Flanker.94]

Guys, have you heard about the J-XX, or J-14? It is a Chinese stealth fighter. Here is a picture:

[Gripen]

Techniqaully, China's Communist system is nothing like the Sovs was, so its hard to call them direct communists. like their not Leninism or Marxist, more Maoist.. similar, but different, but sitll, China would be better if their government changed

[Valiant1]

Hey Flanker 94,

looks quite impressive. Most likely it's a prototype.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see what it can do.  But it does look pretty cool.

[Gripen]

Could it be a mock-up to make people think that the Chinese are working on something like this? Because the CIA,MI6,Mossad,ASIO and a whole other lot of acronyms would already know about it, and maybe the Chinese decided to tire them out by building a mock up of an advanced plane.

[tigershark]

http://www.sinodefence.com/news/2007/news07-04-17.asp
 J-10 Fighter to be Fitted with a Chinese-Made Engine

17 April 2007

 

Chinese media reported on 15 April that the Chengdu J-10 fighter was to be fitted with a indigenously-built engine "within this year".

According to the report, a senior official of Chengdu-based 611 Aircraft Design Institute recently told the press that although the early production variant of the J-10 was fitted with a foreign-made engine for lower risk, the fighter would certainly be fitted with a Chinese indigenous engine, and this was likely to happen this year.

Currently the J-10 fighters in service with the PLA Air Force are powered by a Russian-made Lyulka-Saturn AL-31F turbofan engine. This means that the aircraft cannot be sold to a foreign customer without Russia’s consent. Such a limitation was reflected in the sale of another Chinese-made fighter FC-1/JF-17, which also uses the Russian-made engine. To avoid offending its biggest weapon buyer India, Russia was reluctant to allow the fighter powered by its RD93 engine to be exported to Pakistan, causing delays in the delivery of the fighter.

China has been developing its own WS-10A (commercial name: Taihang) turbofan engine for over a decade, but the project has encountered enormous technical difficulties. The engine was only certified for design finalisation in early 2006. Integration of the engine with the J-10 fighter is believed to be underway at Chengdu Aircraft Corporation.

Although the J-10 has yet been offered to the export market, many countries including Pakistan, Thailand, and Sri Lanka have already expressed their interests in this fighter. Once the fighter is fitted with the Chinese indigenous engine, it can be sold to any customer without restriction.
 
 
 

[Valiant1]

Sort of like the F-16 of the Far East.

[Gripen]

Can China build an engine on its own, and actually have it work properly with out problems? They usually just make Russian Engines, so do they have the experience to make their own?

[tigershark]

It could turn out to be a Chinese F-16 you'll never know.   For some reason this aircraft catches my attention it's just so much better then anything they made before and shows promise.   I was reading that in 2007 China's air force is going to be sending some J-10s to Russia for joint training.   From this were get a better idea what this aircraft is like it's to easy just to put it down.   At a certain point there bound to get it right and create a modern fighter.    I think a big help to China years ago was Pakistan, I can't prove it but I think China got to look under the hood of a Pakistan F-16.   The Lavi program was also a part of this and just over time and billions of dollars of R&D China just got better.   The video clips look good I just have questions about the radar, weapons systems, and engine.   People forget China doesn’t have to design all the equipment in the fighter just is able to produce what’s out there on the market now.   From years of buying Russian aircraft and from using kits the aircraft industry has improved.   This J-10 isn’t a brand new aircraft testing has been going on for ten years plus.   I think a good sign that China’s better is the fact that Pakistan wants more JF-17s, in the hundreds too.   They wouldn’t waste there money and time if the project didn’t turn out good.   There are more used Vipers they could buy but there not.  It’s difficult and unlike China to show what they made to the general public and world.   The US will get a chance to check out the JF-17 overtime sort of like how China got to check out the F-16.   

[Valiant1]

nonpilot,

the fact that Israel helped the Chinese w/the Lavi project and now possibly the Chinese getting a good look at an F-16, shows that they would not have been able to build this fighter if it were not for those 2 factors. 

and everything is hype anyway.  no one knows how good or how bad this plane is.  we'll just have to wait and see.

[tigershark]

Hi Valiant1
"shows that they would not have been able to build this fighter if it were not for those 2 factors.  "
Most likely not these two factor help a lot plus billions of dollars in R&D money.   But China can produce modern fighters and there one of the few countries that can make that claim.   Just because Henry Ford made the first car production line does that mean all the other cars that followed suck right?   Other countries can and are producing interesting things like Brazil produces it's own Anti-radar missile now, the only country in South America that has them.   Times change but nothing compares to the F-22 nor will it for years to come.    The F-22 & F-35 combo will lead the pack for many years to come.