J-10

[Globetrotter]

I heard it would have very good air to air capabilities, similar, but don't know if as good as, the Typhoon. Or at least that's what they pretend to do

[Valiant1]

I highly doubt the J-10 is anywhere near the Typhoon's incredible capabilities.  And I'm glad the US barred the Israelis from selling, or for that matter, I would bar any kikd of hi-tech military equipment going to China.  They're still Communists, remember? 

Remember when England have the Soviets the Ghost jet engine as a gesture of goodwill?  Well, what did the Soviets do?  They copied the engine and installed it in their Mig-15.   

We ought to learn from history.  I'm not knocking the Chinese, I just don't trust their government and their intentions - they still want Taiwan and they'll use force if they have to.
 

[Globetrotter]

I highly doubt the J-10 is anywhere near the Typhoon's incredible capabilities.  And I'm glad the US barred the Israelis from selling, or for that matter, I would bar any kikd of hi-tech military equipment going to China.  They're still Communists, remember? 

Remember when England have the Soviets the Ghost jet engine as a gesture of goodwill?  Well, what did the Soviets do?  They copied the engine and installed it in their Mig-15.   
We ought to learn from history.  I'm not knocking the Chinese, I just don't trust their government and their intentions - they still want Taiwan and they'll use force if they have to.
 

what on hell where supposed to do with it??

[Webmaster]

If the PLAAF commander says it is better than the J-11 (which is a license built standard Su-27) but not as good as the Su-30MKK, then I would say it is not as good as or better than the Typhoon for sure. Just because it looks like it, some people think it is equal.

[Globetrotter]

Well, I heards that they have beaten even the -30MKI.

Now, we should know more about the electronics system and radar to know who has more possibilities, but it is very hard to get right info on this, isn't it?

[Valiant1]

That's right you heard, but there's no proof.  They're all claims made by the Chinese government.    If I were a Typhoon pilot, I would probably just  yawn and be on my way.

There is proof of a British pilot in a Typhoon who shot down 2  F-15C Eagles in a mock dogfight.  He was even shocked that he took on both Eagles. 

But there still is no proof that even the Su-30Mk can take on the Eagle.  Exercise Cope India didn't prove anything - They gave all the advantages to India and not the US Eagle drivers.  But that's another topic which I think is here already under Flanker vs. Eagle.

[Globetrotter]

ok, ok whatever.

Now, it has quite a powerful engine, being that the one on the Su-27. I think it is a good source of power for a relatively small airplane? Thoughts on this?

[Valiant1]

Just like the F-16 has one engine from the F-15 Eagle.  Doesn't mean the F-16 is the better fighter.  It just means it shares the same engine as the Eagle.

[Foxhound21]

well yea there are more things that u have to considere that make a plane a good fighter like new weapons, avionics, maneurability and my fav the speed....etc

[tigershark]

To early to compared to a 4th ++ generation fighter like the EF2000 and to date Chinese haven't produced anything themselves along these lines in aviation.   Both the JF-17/FC-1 and the J-10 seem advance and show skills built into the design not seen before on any Chinese built aircraft,  remember the J-11s are built from Russian plans and designed from A to Z, but it's to soon to know.    The avionics which is the guts or heart and soul of the aircraft are unknown because to date China basically only produced advance Mig-21.  The design looks like it's maneuverability from the new clip but I'm not a fighter pilot I don't if that quick flip change direction move is difficult. 

 Posted by: Valiant1
Insert Quote
Just like the F-16 has one engine from the F-15 Eagle.  Doesn't mean the F-16 is the better fighter.  It just means it shares the same engine as the Eagle.
Vipers do very well against Eagles from what I've read which includes beating more in close.   The F-15 larger radar/scanner sees the Viper first so he tries to get into a better firing position first but the Viper radar picks up the F-15 soon after and before he can launch remember both have the same missiles.   Pilot skill is huge in these type fights and like most air to air combat.  A good source info on this is f-16net and read aircraft Y vs. other aircraft section in there forum.   

  Posted by: Valiant1
There is proof of a British pilot in a Typhoon who shot down 2  F-15C Eagles in a mock dogfight.
> I would expect it to because it's a newer more modern design it should.   The Eagles is still a great fighter and only a few aircraft now can beat it a great design. 
"But there still is no proof that even the Su-30Mk can take on the Eagle.  Exercise Cope India didn't prove anything "
> I agree with you on this it's not a true test, for neither side would really show what it could really do and yes American fighter couldn't launch there missiles from max range.   That handicap is important and remember US fighter are not going to show what type of jamming or spoofing they can really do against Russian made missiles.   It was a  exercise I think the truth may be in the middle some where they were better then the US thought and the US didn't show them true balls to the floor training. 

[Valiant1]

Nonpilot,

I never took pilot skill out of the equation.  You're right about that part.  I always mentioned pilots being equal in other areas of this forum.  True,  the F-16 may be able to take on the F-15, given the circumstances.  After all, the F-16 was the USAF's first fly-by-wire fighter mass produced, so in that respect, I don't see why it would not be able to tangle with an Eagle.  The electronics give the Falcon (or Viper, depending on the nation, I believe)  a much better response than  the Eagle's hydraulics,  but still, the Eagle set many standards as the air superiority fighter that all others are measured by. 

Concerning the Eagle vs.Flanker variant Su-30MK, US pilots, as I have mentioned, are under strict orders not to reveal their tactics against the Flankers.  I am not discrediting the Flanker, on the contrary, I think it is an outstanding aircraft, by Russian design as well as Western.  It is a fighter greatly respected by other nations.  But on the same token, we cannot count the Eagle out in a dogfight w/the Flanker.  Again, pilot skills and tactics play an important role.  At the same time, although respected by others, the Flanker has been outclassed by fighters such as the Typhoon, the Gripen and the Raptor.

I have reason to believe the US Air Force has a Flanker and they are using it to compare against the Eagle.  I have a feeling this is where they have created tactics against it. 

In my opinion, the USAF doesn't need to spend billions on the Raptor...I believe evolving the Eagle to the next level would have been better and cheaper.  Fly-by-wire technology, improved avionics and radar  would have given the Eagle much better response to its already outstanding maneuverability, performance and lethality.  Even new airframes w/larger wings for more fuel and weapons payload would increase the Eagle's effectiveness.

Ah, but alas, politics would win...all the time.

[Webmaster]

Well, I heards that they have beaten even the -30MKI.

Where? How? It's extremely unlikely, the Indians wouldn't go mock dogfighting the Chinese, especially not in a fight with both country's latest yets. The only other Su-30MKI is Sukhoi's, they wouldn't lend it to the Chinese. So it's based on theories then...?

They are probably only saying that because Pakistan looks to buy J-10s, so it should be able to beat the Indian Su-30MKIs. I wouldn't be suprised if that claim is even coming from Paki defence/aviation enthusiasts in the first place.

I can see where it is coming from, the 30MKI is a large airframe, so even though the TVC and canards makes it very agile, in a fight with a lightweight, agile J-10, it might not differ too much. yeah then maybe in the WVR arena... just like the F-16 beats the F-15 then. However avionics wise I would put my money on Su-30MKI. Again, if the PLAAF commander says it is not as good as the Su-30MKK, why say that it beats a Su-30MKI...

I'm not even sure it has a proper radar already... ?