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Military Aviation => Military Aircraft => Topic started by: Flanker.94 on April 15, 2007, 06:27:39 PM

Title: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Flanker.94 on April 15, 2007, 06:27:39 PM
Hey guys. Have you heard about the J-XX, a Chinese stealth fighter? Her is a picture:
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Cobra2 on April 15, 2007, 07:54:54 PM
And there must be 2 types because yours has canard wings and mine doesn't.

And it doesn't look very aerodynamic. I don't think it will fly very well. But time will tell I guesse.
I will try to find  more on it and maybe a video if I can.
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Cobra2 on April 15, 2007, 08:04:15 PM
I found this information on this site. And I was right, it does have traits of the F-22 raptor. And this information is from 2006. But this is some good stuff. Also it has internal weapons bays like the F-22. But like I said I don't think it is a good airframe and won't be very aerodynamic.

Quote
According to the reports of the Jane's Defence Weekly, China has already launched its next generation stealthy fighter aircraft programme, and Shenyang Aircraft Industry Co. (SAC) has been selected to head research and development of a new fighter for the PLA Air Force (PLAAF).

PROGRAMME

According to the report from Jane's, development of the subsystems including the engine and weapon suite for the next generation fighter, which was codenamed by the Western intelligence as J-XX, has been underway for some time. Images of the concepts show a twin-engine aircraft sharing some design traits with Lockheed Martin's stealthy F/A-22 "Raptor" multirole fighter such as the internal carriage of its weapons.

Not too much public information about the programme is available at the moment. The aircraft, which could be designated as J-13 or J-14, is still going through initial concept work, the same stage as the USAF Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) programme in the early 1980s, which later led to the F/A-22 Raptor. Sources within China's confirmed that the SAC is looking at a twin-engine, single-seat, single vertical tale fin design, but other design proposals has yet been ruled out.

As China has developed close ties with Russia's aerospace industry and has license produced many planes of formal Soviet designs, it can be predicted that the J-XX would include some, if not many Russian technologies and designs. China has been offered a 'joint development and production' of a new fifth-generation fighter by Russia -LFI. Russia has been trying to sell this concept both to China and India for some time, but neither of them has committed fully yet. According to Russian resources, the LFI will be able to counter U.S. second fifth-generation Joint Strike Fighter (JSF).

Stealth and thrust vectoring are two must-have features in all aircraft being designed in the 21st century. If is not clear that how much progress Chinese designers have made in these areas, and Chinese aircraft industry may have to take Western/Israeli/Russian helps to make the J-XX truly fouth-generation (or fifth-generation using the Russian standards). Once introduced, the J-12's immediate rival will be U.S. F/A-22, JSF and India's MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft).

Source: www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1600141/posts (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1600141/posts)
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Viggen on April 15, 2007, 08:05:07 PM
That Chinese one reminds me of that MIG from the movie Firefox.  :)
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: giel on April 15, 2007, 09:18:37 PM
that plane looks very good :o
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Gripen on April 16, 2007, 05:06:34 AM
The second one is a YF-23.. American built. looks bit like the Wyvern out of Ace Combat..
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Raptor on April 16, 2007, 10:22:34 AM
It looks... wierd. Not like to chinese to build something so impractical...
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Flanker.94 on April 16, 2007, 11:10:36 PM
Gripen, you,re right. It really looks like the Wyvern. Here is a picture of a Wyvern:
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Globetrotter on April 17, 2007, 01:48:47 AM
I don't know, but that has some similarities with the Su-27, take a deep look ;)
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Flanker.94 on April 17, 2007, 06:03:28 PM
I don't know, but that has some similarities with the Su-27, take a deep look ;)

Wich aircraft has similarities with the Su-27, the J-XX or the Wyvern?
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: giel on April 17, 2007, 07:44:00 PM
The second one is a YF-23.. American built. looks bit like the Wyvern out of Ace Combat..

the sign of america is on the plane so DUUUUH and if you look good you can see " us air force " so again DUUUUH  :o
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Globetrotter on April 17, 2007, 11:30:10 PM
Wich aircraft has similarities with the Su-27, the J-XX or the Wyvern?

Wyvern
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Gripen on April 18, 2007, 03:45:23 AM
Cobra2 obviously didnt.
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Cobra2 on April 19, 2007, 01:58:19 AM
I wasn't paying attention  ::)
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Raptor on April 23, 2007, 11:44:27 AM
Ok. I've got a friend from China. They're developing ALL sorts of new stuff. But that's not important right now. (We wait until USA gets blown up by them and we send a plane over to pick Cobra2 up while there's still hope.  ;D)

It's supposed to reach the same stage as the F-22 eventually, and they actually intend to surpass American technology for this one. Don't ask me how, that's just what i was told. The rest of the details are mostly here already, and i'm seriously bad at Chinese-English translation. So the little details are all left out.  :) And of course, it will be "stealth." And worst of all, they're going to sell it. A boon to their economy, and a major threat to the other world powers. And if they manage their target performance, the Raptor wil be old news.
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: RecceJet on April 23, 2007, 11:58:51 AM
Looks awefully clean doesn't it? ;) I could eat off the ground, not a single mark on it! Everything is so clean and new looking. Everything.
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Flanker.94 on April 23, 2007, 05:49:17 PM
This aircraft is awesome. It would be hot to do a friendly dogfight with the J-XX and the F/A-22.
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Cobra2 on April 24, 2007, 01:37:05 AM
Ok. I've got a friend from China. They're developing ALL sorts of new stuff. But that's not important right now. (We wait until USA gets blown up by them and we send a plane over to pick Cobra2 up while there's still hope.  ;D)

It's supposed to reach the same stage as the F-22 eventually, and they actually intend to surpass American technology for this one. Don't ask me how, that's just what i was told. The rest of the details are mostly here already, and i'm seriously bad at Chinese-English translation. So the little details are all left out.  :) And of course, it will be "stealth." And worst of all, they're going to sell it. A boon to their economy, and a major threat to the other world powers. And if they manage their target performance, the Raptor wil be old news.


 Thanks Raptor I knew you would care  ;D

But, China will not blow up the US, the J-XX will not be better than the F-22 I highly doubt that. And could that rescue plane be an F-15? it would have to be the -E or -B though ;) and whatever you do, do not let Foxhound fly it!  >:D
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Gripen on April 24, 2007, 08:10:58 AM
What China wants and what China gets are hadly ever the same
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: RecceJet on April 24, 2007, 09:57:09 AM
Hang on, you guys are still carrying on as if you think that J-xx image is real :P
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Cobra2 on April 24, 2007, 06:45:15 PM
Yeah Recc is probably right...I mean, the airframe just is not going to work. And the picture does kind of look animated...if you pick out certain parts of the image. Or maybe its just a fake plane but a real picture? Like a decoy  :)
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Gripen on April 25, 2007, 05:34:57 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenyang_J-XX

a plane called the J-XX does exist.
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: RecceJet on April 25, 2007, 11:15:29 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenyang_J-XX

a plane called the J-XX does exist.
I do not doubt that Gripen ;D But I got the impression people here were commenting on that photo of an airframe in a hangar being the J-xx. Looks like a combination of real background with scaled model and photoshop finish to me.
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Gripen on April 26, 2007, 05:12:39 AM
The Chinese aero industry has come a long way in the last few years, so maybe the plane is real. but it seems strange that they let a photo of it get onto the net..
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Webmaster on April 30, 2007, 06:22:36 PM
See this article from MILTECH featuring the same picture: http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1435/jxx2bo.jpg

It says it is a full-scale engineering mock-up.

However I also found this picture: http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard/uploads/1020487_383426578.jpg which has the same logo's on them as the one posted here, but looks like a photoshopped picture or a computer generated picture. Is it a graphic based on the photo, or is it another work from the artist, only less good?

I thought they were still in the windtunnel stage with the J-XX project.
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Gripen on May 01, 2007, 08:16:38 AM
I remeber saying that the planes probably a mock up to confused the intelligence community on a different topic ages ago..
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: RecceJet on May 01, 2007, 09:48:10 AM
I remeber saying that the planes probably a mock up to confused the intelligence community on a different topic ages ago..

Or confuse aircraft enthusiasts perhaps?  ;)
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Gripen on May 01, 2007, 10:04:35 AM
Whatd be the point of that?

Intelligence people make more sense.
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Valiant1 on May 02, 2007, 03:17:11 PM
 I don't know, man, if it took the Chinese this LONG to develop the J-10 or whatever that plane is, I find it hard to believe that they have already developed a stealth fighter. 

Sounds too good to be true.
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Raptor on June 01, 2007, 07:54:12 AM
The image looks like a fake. But it should be a threat, no doubt.
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: valkyrian on June 07, 2007, 03:16:23 PM
Hi gentlemen, seems that you have a nice thread here. I am new here and i don't want to start without telling it. My opinion is that China hasn't the required technology to make a true stealth fighter. This requires money, that only the powerful US industry can yet afford. So, apart from great looking birds, those two fighters are highly unlikely to be as stealth as the F-22, nor they can have the technology level for other systems. Chinese until now, have prove that they make cheap copies of everything. The leap to a new stealth fighter requires more than a good copy paste machine. 
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: tigershark on June 07, 2007, 03:27:44 PM
I agree with you valkyrian a 100 percent they are still many years away from designing and producing stealth themselves and welcome aboard. 
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Gripen on June 08, 2007, 07:48:25 AM
Yes Valkyrian, welcome to our wacky little world.

How do we know what China has and dosent have? They got all sorts of stuff of the Russkies, and they have spies do they not?
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: RecceJet on June 08, 2007, 09:40:41 AM
Yes Valkyrian, welcome to our wacky little world.

How do we know what China has and dosent have? They got all sorts of stuff of the Russkies, and they have spies do they not?

Gripen, I would suggest there is no real way for us to know. The people who would are the ones you mentioned in your previous two posts in this topic. Hence my view that it would earlier confuse aircraft enthusiasts. The this group of people isn't necessarily privy to all the information.
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Flanker.94 on June 08, 2007, 05:58:03 PM
Maybe the Chineses were affiliate with other countries to build that aircraft.
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: valkyrian on June 09, 2007, 01:29:08 AM
I was looking to my books, the front end (nose, inlet) of that striking bird, looks like the Boeing proposal to the ATF contest, unfortunately i can post the image now, but i will). The rear end is clearly a MIg 1.42, wide spaced verticals with fins. So, if it is true, the designers can't claim any copyright. It is a mix of older designs. Just like the J-8, just like the J-10 just like anything those guys have produced.
I can't see if this beast is single or twin engined. Judging from the size i bet it is a 2 engined. Well that particular inlet configuration has a drawback in that in case of one engine flame out, the other will be directly affected. Very risky configuration, and one of the reasons USAF validated Boeing's proposal low. As a friend would say, "just my two cents!"
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Webmaster on June 09, 2007, 03:48:28 AM
Right, making a plane look "5th gen" doesn't make it stealth, neither does putting some RAM on it and reduce the RCS. You still have to worry about all kinds of emissions, not only IR.

Maybe Russia sold them 1.44/1.42/LFI info, but that thing never got any far either.

If China focuses so much on this stealth thing, it might actually be a good thing for US + allies, since it will be really expensive, delayed development and testing, produced in smaller numbers, yet still inferior to US weapons by the time it's up to strength.
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Cobra2 on August 08, 2007, 12:10:18 AM
Wow that last picture you can tell is way to fake looking. The people don't look very real.
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Raptor on August 08, 2007, 09:52:31 AM
I agree with Webby. We CAN call you that, right. (It's a conspiracy, but *shhhhhhhh* don't tell anyone)

I don't even think Russia has the stealth that the US has. And oh, Webby, China has lots of money to spend right now. And you'd be very surprised at how well-made their weapons and illegal goods are. Hey, i live right below them, i should know.
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Icarus on August 08, 2007, 04:52:31 PM
There is one thing however, and as an engineer myself, I know it very well: No matter how good your scientists and how much money you have, you always need experience to make something good - and neither China or Russia has it. Watch the Nighthawk, it was very stealthy for its time, but it was full of compromises...So many compromises that were close to negating its stealthiness ! Iraqi...You remember them. They were clumsy - everybody says that. Both in the air and on the flak arena. First time the F-117 popped on something more serious than a 3rd-world country, it got shot down :-*

In any case, the experience from F-117, money and the good engineers USA has, has produced the B2, the Raptor, the Lightning II....Things that are really fighters in all their sense - they fight, they bomb, you can fly them upside down and you can then go home with them. China has nothing. Up until the early 2000s it was a country with a great civilization in the past, but which was still stuck in Mao's 1950s otherwise. It will be a decade before they can build anything that can counter the Raptor or any 4.5th-gen western or russian fighter. The most they can do is something a little better than the F-117 right now, I think. On the other hand, just look at the sheer size of that thing. This is closer to the 'Vark than it is to the Eagle ! Definitely not a fighter....And definitely not 5th-gen. Chinese industry is not mature or technologically advanced enough to produce really good AESA technology, or the extremely efficient RAM coatings of their western counterparts.

While I'm glad to see that they're able to build an airplane themselves, something which few countries in the world can do, this is not a stealth fighter and it's not a 5th-gen combat aircraft as well. :)
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: valkyrian on August 08, 2007, 05:31:48 PM
Since Icarus mentioned the size of the "Chinese mock up", it gives me the opportunity to mention that it is generally the size of the MiG 1.42 with wich it shares the basic layout, but it seems that it has been more well shaped than the Russian bird. I'd say that it looks beautiful, at least from this angle, more beautiful from Mig, and the Raptor, but beauty doesn't win battles, nor defeats fighter jets...............
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Gripen on August 10, 2007, 08:51:21 AM
Hey, beauty can win battles, their called BEAUTY CONTESTS or PAGENTS.. depending on the word where you live..

yeah, this has nothing to do with anything does it?
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Raptor on August 14, 2007, 11:42:30 AM
Gripen. Don't make me shoot you.

Hm. I agree about China. Still, they're known to be very resourceful... It could be ahead of it's time, china-wise...
Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Gripen on August 16, 2007, 01:24:40 AM
Im confused

Is it J-XX as in J-20 (roman numerals)

or J-XX as in Ex Ex

Title: Re: J-XX: Chinese stealth fighter?
Post by: Raptor on August 18, 2007, 02:15:48 PM
Have you heard of a J-X Grip? It was J-10, wasn't it?

There you have it. It's code-named J-XX. (I think) ((Couldn't get the paper on it)) (((My cousin isn't the best newscaster))) ((((I patched this together)))) (((((No guarantee this is accurate)))))

Because they have no idea whether it is this or that...