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Author Topic: LCA ( light combat aircraft ) from HAL INDIA  (Read 13316 times)

Offline nobody

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LCA ( light combat aircraft ) from HAL INDIA
« on: May 28, 2005, 06:35:08 PM »
hi guys, i want to know by when the LCA will be inducted into the IAF. also by when the naval LCA will be inducted in to the navy. how many LCAs will the IAF & navy order.
NAVAL LCA - i've seen the pic of the naval LCA, it looks real great.  will it be better than the mig-29 naval which indian navy is ordering. also how wld it compare to f-18, f-14, sea harrier & other naval airplanes.
AIRFORCE LCA - how does it compare with f-16 c/d, mirage-2000-5, mig-29, grippen, j-10 & fc-1.

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Re: LCA ( light combat aircraft ) from HAL INDIA
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2005, 12:45:25 PM »
India is very proud of its achievement of its own supersonic fighter, and rightfully so, if it lives up to its promises and expectations. However development and production have been severely delayed. And its indigenous engine development of the Kaveri is troublesome as well. It looks now, that with the US connection restored, all LCA Téjas might end up with the US F404 engine.  Which is no shame, because the Swedish did the same with their Gripen (although they didn't try to build their own engine).

The recent 126 multirole fighter requirement, to be bought from abroad, confirms my doubts in the LCA. Although I believe it might be a fine MiG-21 replacement, and well suited against the older Mirages, older F-16s, F-7s and even JF-17s it may face.

I am not sure if there has been a firm order yet by the IAF. But considering 300 MiGs need replacement, we might see an eventual order of 150-200 aircraft. I wonder what it will have costed the Indian tax payer when only 150 are ultimately produced. I don't see any export potential.

The Naval LCA is just a concept as far as I know. The MiG-29K can enter production now, Russia offers license production, so the order will be sufficient to fill its new carrier. India expressed no interest in the ex-RN Sea Harrier FA.2, which probably means that as soon as the MiG-29Ks are on strength, the existing fleet of Harriers will be retired as well as the carrier Viraat, or perhaps it might soldier on as helicopter ship. Now, India plans to build its own carrier, and I think that's what HAL is aiming at with this concept. The LCA will have matured by then, and the trainer version fully developed. So I don't think it should be compared to any of the aircraft you mentioned, but to the naval JSFs, F/A-18E/F, MiG-29K upgraded, and Rafale.
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elias_b

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Re: LCA ( light combat aircraft ) from HAL INDIA
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2005, 06:30:51 PM »
The Indian AF is to have a future airforce with 4 different "types" of fighter aircraft:

- A heavy multirole fighter Su-30MKI with a total of 190 to be purchased
- A Medium Fighter Today:  Mig-29 (how many?), M2000 (approx. 50)
                                                        Another 10 new M2000 are on order and the 12 Qatari M2000-5 will be delivered to India as well
                                                        The new fighter procurement program for 126 will be in this category, with the most important
                                                        bidders being the M2000-5, the Mig-29(new generation) and the F-16. I believe that the F/A-18 and
                                                        the Gripen are also being considered.
- Light Fighter    Currently the Mig-21. 125 Fishbeds were upgraded by Russia. The LCA Tejas will replace the old Fishbeds.
- Strike aircraft    The Jaguar (approx. 140) and the recently modified Mig-27M (approx. 165) will soldier on for a long time to come                                     

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Re: LCA ( light combat aircraft ) from HAL INDIA
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2005, 09:34:37 PM »
Yes, and it looks they plan to give the new Hawks an armed capability as well...probably mainly for advanced weapons training. But it's just another measure neccessary because of the delays in LCA programma in my humble opinion.
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Offline orko_8

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Re: LCA ( light combat aircraft ) from HAL INDIA
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2005, 01:20:54 PM »
I too, think that LCA is a good achievement for Indian aerospace industry. But the project lacked good planning at the very beginning. First flight was planned for 1990 and first service entry was planned for 1994. There was 4.5 years of interval between first flight of prototype and IOC aircraft. That interval was 6.5 years for Gripen of Sweden. 16 years for Rafale and 17 years for EF-2000 passed from the production of the first prototype till service entry, this interval was planned to be 10 years for LCA... Compare the industrial infrastructure, experience and technological capabilities of these European nations (i.e Sweden, France, UK etc) with India. There had been a serious mistake somewhere, which resulted in a ~10 years of delay and lots of MiG crashes, and most important, loss of pilots.

On February 10th, first order for 40 aircraft was given by IAF, with a cost of Rs 4000 crore. This is a start, but the future does not seem so bright for Tejas, I think. 

This is the news about LCA order on 10th February. Sorry I don't have the link.


Quote
AIR force to buy 40 LCA from HAL

BANGALORE: UNI

The Indian Air Force (IAF) on Thursday firmed an order for 40 Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) with the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), including 20 opitional purchases at a total cost of Rs 4000 crore.

Announcing this at a press conference, Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal S P Tyagi said the first LCA was expected to be delivered in 2008 and the LCA induction into the Airforce would take place in the 2010-2012 time frame.

He said the ADA had already been asked to hasten the LCA project and was sure that the delivery would be on schedule with all necessry flying hours logged. Three developmental aircraft had already logged 357 sorties, he said and added the first twin seater LCA was expected to be ready within the next one-and-half years, he added.

Replying to a question, he said the decision of the Air Force to go in for 126 multi role fighters in the 20 tonne class had nothing to do with the delay in the induction of LCA. ''We needed different aircraft in the airforce fleet. Don't mix up purchase of 126 aircraft with the LCA'' he added.

He said the Airforce had sent in for request for information for the 126 fighters and hoped the complex process would be completed at the earleist. He asserted that the proposal would not be delayed as was the case with the acquisition of the Advanced Jet Trainer Hawk and said the process would be completed in a much faster pace.

''All decisions do not rest in Vayu Bhavan'' Tyagi said. Different ministries in the union government, besides a whole lot of agencies, including the HAL, were involved in the process and definitely it would take time. ''But we will complete the process as quickly as possible in view of the demand for the aircraft''.

The first 20 aircraft would be fitted with the GE F404 engines, he said adding that it would be fine if the Kaveri engine being developed indigenously was fitted on to the LCA. ''The Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) informed me that Kaveri engine will be delivered and I have no reason to doubt it''. However there is already an alternate engine option in the GE F404.

On weaponising the LCA, the Air Chief said the weapons had been identified and the appropriate agencies had been told about it.

Replying to questions about the HAL's plan for the development of a Combat Attack Trainer (CAT) whose mock up had been displayed at the HAL pavillion at the aeroshow here, the Air Chief said the project was still in the nascent stage. ''The HAL and the IAF had come up with some idea. A lot need to be done'' he added.

On the BrahMos missle being fitted into a fighter aircraft, he said the three tonne missle was a huge weapon and certain work need to be carried out to reduce its weight. Modifications need to be worked out on aircraft and the missle, he added

elias_b

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Re: LCA ( light combat aircraft ) from HAL INDIA
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2005, 12:27:08 PM »
Yes, and because the introduction of the Tejas will begin so late, I read that the Indians will probably upgrade another 50 Mig-21 as an interim measure.

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Re: LCA ( light combat aircraft ) from HAL INDIA
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2005, 12:53:07 PM »
If you take those costs into account as well as the development cost...how expensive will this light aircraft become? Same counts for the German and Italian Eurofighters, but at least they get a far more superior fighter than they have in service today.

Well let's hope the industry and economy gains from it...although also in this perspective gains of your own design seemed to be reduced, now almost all market leaders are offering license production and industry off-sets...not to mention technology transfer.
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Offline chacko

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Re: LCA ( light combat aircraft ) from HAL INDIA
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2005, 02:43:35 PM »
Cost  of the development should be spread over varients and spinoff's. While western aircrafts were made with upgrading technology, LCA not only got India technology but also a whole new aviation industry.

Offline Srirangan

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Re: LCA ( light combat aircraft ) from HAL INDIA
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2005, 06:22:32 PM »
Cost  of the development should be spread over varients and spinoff's. While western aircrafts were made with upgrading technology, LCA not only got India technology but also a whole new aviation industry.
Say for the price of a "Eurofighter" I'll take that ;)

Offline Battlemike

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Re: LCA ( light combat aircraft ) from HAL INDIA
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2005, 01:52:55 AM »
Can we say junk? This is a cheap "throwaway" fighter ,meant for atrition warfare against pakistani( and possibly Chinese) air forces.If it were the "answer" as Indian national egotism has heralded, then why buy the "better" Mig-29s? India would have bought f-16Cs if it weren't for the fact that Pakistan flies them and they cost more.And why does India need an aircraft carrier anyway? Aircraft carriers are for projection of national power in areas of the world where a military wants 1st strike at an opponent.India has no world enemies like the U.S. France or UK doesTheir chief concern is border skirmishes with Pakistan, which is more social and religious than political-hence the need for an interceptor like the Mig 29.Even russia mothballed its carriers when the "wall"came down.For a country that can't feed 30% of its populationI'd be more concerned about social issues, then trying to build newer weapons systems.The Mig replacement is the best and cheapest way to go for their defensive needs.......

Offline bhushan

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Re: LCA ( light combat aircraft ) from HAL INDIA
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2005, 12:43:49 PM »
hi battlemike,

india needs approx 200 lcas & 126 mrca to replace the 350+ mig-21s which are ageing.
reg f-16 ( though it is a superb plane, i'd personally not go for it due to the sanctions scare & not because the pakistanis have them ). anyways f-16 is in the running for the 126 mrca order.
the lca is not a cheap throwaway fighter & it is acknowledged to be a modern & value for money fighter & i read that on a french website.
reg the aircraft carriers, well india plans to hv a bluewater navy & hence needs them.
we are a peaceful nation & even you have mentioned that we do not have any world enemies.
our main concern is defence & we have neighbours who may not hare the same peaceful intent we possess, therefore we have to spend money on defence.
pls note that india was always known for it rich heritage & history. it is the home to so many diverse religions, cultures, races, etc,,,, but they all co-exist peacefully. india is today a booming economy & i am confident that in the coming years we should be able to raise the standard of living of majority of the population.

Offline bhushan

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Re: LCA ( light combat aircraft ) from HAL INDIA
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2005, 08:31:25 AM »
Hindustan (HAL)
Light Combat Aircraft (LCA)
Light Multi-Role Fighter



DESCRIPTION:
India began pursuing the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project in 1983 seeking a lightweight, low-cost replacement for its aging fleet of MiG-21 fighters. Under the overall direction of India's Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the prime contractor Hindustan was given responsibility for most LCA design and fabrication work. HAL is also responsible for integrating the efforts of several government laboratories, educational institutes, and sub-contractors.
The resulting delta wing design features many advanced modern technologies, including a digital fly-by-wire control system, integrated avionics, extensive use of composite materials, and glass cockpit displays. Other sophisticated features include the aircraft's multi-mode radar, laser designator pod and FLIR system, ring laser gyro inertial navigation system, comprehensive electronic warfare suite, and jam-resistant communications sytems.

Unfortunately, the LCA program has run into several delays that have extended the development effort by at least a decade. The LCA first ran into trouble as the design was being finalized in 1990 when a government commission found several deficiencies in critical technology areas. These findings resulted in the decision to build two technolgy demonstrator aircraft to insure that these issues could be resolved. The first of these aircraft was rolled out in 1995, but difficulties with the flight control system and manufacturing of composite structural components kept the plane grounded.

Another major setback occurred in 1998 when India's nuclear tests prompted the US to place sanctions on the sale of General Electric F404 turbofans. These sanctions also ended Lockheed Martin's assistance in development of the flight control system. India decided to proceed in spite of these problems and invest in a domestically-developed jet engine to replace the F404 on production aircraft. This decision incurred additional penalties since many delays and cost overruns have been encountered while developing the new Kaveri engine.

Nevertheless, the first LCA technology demonstrator finally took to the air in 2001. Six additional prototypes were due to follow by 2003. Production and delivery plans remain uncertain, but it is believed that the LCA should begin to enter service by about 2010.

Last modified 14 November 2004



HISTORY:
First Flight 4 January 2001
Service Entry

planned for 2005 to 2010


CREW: 1 pilot


ESTIMATED COST:

$21 million


AIRFOIL SECTIONS:
Wing Root unknown
Wing Tip

unknown


DIMENSIONS:
Length 43.27 ft (13.20 m)
Wingspan 26.88 ft (8.20 m)
Height 14.42 ft (4.40 m)
Wing Area 412.6 ft2 (38.4 m2)
Canard Area

not applicable


WEIGHTS:
Empty 12,125 lb (5,500 kg)
Typical Load 18,740 lb (8,500 kg) [clean]
Max Takeoff 27,560 lb (12,500 kg)
Fuel Capacity internal: 795 gal (3,000 L)
external: 1,055 gal (4,000 L)
Max Payload

8,820 lb (4,000 kg)


PROPULSION:
Powerplant (prototype) one General Electric F404-F2J3 turbofan
(production) one GTRE GTX-35VS Kaveri turbofan
Thrust (F404) 18,100 lb (80.50 kN)
(GTX) 20,200 lb (89.86 kN)


PERFORMANCE:
Max Level Speed at altitude: 1,195 mph (1,920 km/h) at 36,000 ft (11,000 m), Mach 1.8
at sea level: unknown
Initial Climb Rate unknown
Service Ceiling 50,000 ft (15,250 m)
Range 460 nm (850 km)
g-Limits +9 / -3.5


ARMAMENT:
Gun one 23-mm GSh-23 twin-barrel cannon (220 rds)
Stations seven external hardpoints
Air-to-Air Missile medium- and short-range AAM
Air-to-Surface Missile up to two conventional cruise missiles, anti-ship missiles
Bomb laser-guided bombs, conventional bombs
Other rocket pods


KNOWN VARIANTS:
LCA-TD-1 First technology demonstrator equipped with a General Electric F404 turbofan
LCA-TD-2 Second technology demonstrator
LCA-PV-1 thru PV-4 Single-seat prototype vehicles that should be at or very close to production form, equipped with in-flight refueling capability
LCA-PV-5 Two-seat trainer prototype vehicle
LCA Production model for the Indian Air Force
Trainer Two-seat trainer model
Navy model A navalized version with strengthened landing gear and a redesigned forward fuselage has been proposed for use aboard a future Indian aircraft carrier
MCA Planned Medium Combat Aircraft derived from the LCA, supposed to possess greater stealth characteristics and thrust-vectoring capability


KNOWN COMBAT RECORD:

not yet in service


KNOWN OPERATORS:

India

 



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