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Author Topic: Algeria to return 15 MiG aircraft to Russia over inferior quality  (Read 5584 times)

Offline tigershark

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I always questioned why the SMT was ordered when more advance models were produced?


Algeria to return 15 MiG aircraft to Russia over inferior quality

18/02/2008 13:38 MOSCOW, February 18 (RIA Novosti) - In an unprecedented move, Algeria is to return to Russia 15 MiG aircraft delivered in 2006-07, a Russian business daily said on Monday.

Kommersant quoted a source in the state-owned United Aircraft Building Corporation as saying that last week the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, Russia's state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport, the MiG Corporation, and the Algerian Air Force had signed an agreement on the return of the MiGs.

It said the Russian Industry and Energy Ministry had confirmed the deal.

The aircraft are to be returned within the next few months. However, the source said this did not mean that the previous contract has now been torn up, and Russia will offer Algeria more advanced airplanes, MiG-29M2s or MiG-35s.

Rosoboronexport signed a $1.28 billion contract for the delivery of 29 one-seat MiG-29SMT Fulcrum fighters and six two-seat MiG-29UB fighters in March 2006 as part of an $8 billion military-technical cooperation agreement with Algeria.

Deliveries were to be made from March 2007 until February 2008, but Algeria began refusing deliveries from May 2007, demanding that Russia take back the first 15 aircraft it had delivered, citing the "inferior quality" of certain components and units.

In October 2007, Algeria stopped payments on other military contracts pending the return of the MiGs.

Experts suggest Algeria may have opted instead for French Rafale fighters as France builds up its presence in the North African state.

"The Russian [cooperation agreement] breakthrough in Algeria in 2006 provoked a strong backlash in France, especially following the election of President Sarkozy," said Konstantin Makiyenko, of the Center for Strategic and Technological Analysis.


Link
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080218/99490063.html

Offline tigershark

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Re: Algeria to return 15 MiG aircraft to Russia over inferior quality
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2008, 09:28:18 PM »
A little follow up
Rosoboronexport selling “mutton dressed as lamb”

 

Russia’s arms export agency Rosoboronexport has been accused of selling fighter aircraft that are “mutton dressed as lamb” to Algeria, Syria and Venezuela.

On July 25, 2006, President Hugo Chavez ordered 24 Sukhoi Su-30 MKVs for the Venezuelan Air Force (AMV), with an option on 12 more. Of these, 14 have now been delivered. But the AMV has discovered, to its dismay, that the Su-30MKVs so far delivered have come from batches that had previously been refused by the Chinese PLA General Staff. The AMV is demanding an explanation.

Syria, for its part, has ordered 14 MiG-29SMTs. New-build MiG-29SMTs are manufactured only at RSK MiG’s Voronin Production Centre. But it appears that the aircraft for the Syrian Air Force are coming in stead from the Sokol plant in Nizhny Novgorod, which has the capability only for modernisation of existing MiG-29s. The basic aircraft are therefore second-hand.

But, according to French newsletter TTU, it is Algeria which has been the hardest hit and which has reacted most strongly. The country has ordered 30 MiG-29SMTs and six two-seat MiG-29UBTs for its Air Force, plus a further 36 fighters on option.

And the Algerian Air Force discovered in summer 2007 that all its “new” MiG-29SMTs were coming from Sokol and were, in fact, based on 15 year-old airframes.

As a result, the Algerian Government broke off all relations with Rosoboronexport in October 2007. According to one source close to the dossier, “If Moscow, or President Putin, did not realise MiG’s subterfuge and they fail to correct it, then Algeria will look to the West. As will Syria.” © DAPSS  S.A., 2008, Switzerland

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Found this the above on a different forum

Offline Webmaster

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Re: Algeria to return 15 MiG aircraft to Russia over inferior quality
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2008, 11:35:04 PM »
I think some further information is needed before we can draw any conclusions.

I still believe there's no such thing as new-built -SMTs, unless you want to build new MiG-29S and then upgrade them. I don't think it has been produced for years. In other words, I believe Syria and Algeria knew for a fact that they were buying "renewed" overhauled MiGs, so the notion that they've sold old 'renewed' upgraded MiGs as being new-builds is incorrect I think. Even then it's still possible the customer is unsatisfied by the state of components/parts, or the overall quality of the finished overhaul, and feels it's not to contract requirements or promised specification.

It's like buying a camera from Sony that has been returned under warranty, inspected/repaired with new components and repackaged and sold as overhauled under terms that it is as good as a new one. If upon inspection some parts were not replaced or show their age and thus the camera does not fulfill the promise that it is as good as new, and that gives you every right to return the product and you can decide to buy a new one anyway.

However for the press, especially the French press which is probably biased towards Dassault's products, it's of course far more interesting to pretend some kind of 'customer deception' or fraud has been going on here. (and I think we've seen many times on this forum already that RIAN and Kommersant are not the most reliable either.)

With regards to the AMV, it's too early to tell. It surely explains how they could be delivered so fast. The AMV rightfully demands an explanation (bit late though). However it may be for issues that are specific to Chinese requirements or that have been resolved upon delivery to the AMV. And maybe the government was in fact informed about this, but conveniently ignored this, to create their Flanker fleet asap in response to the US embargo. Let's not judge too soon.

Also, I am not sure if the Voronin vs Sokol production center argument is based on facts, maybe, but if it forms a valid argument in this case...

On the other hand, it would be not the first case in which (various) contractors fail to deliver (Russian-origin) defence products to specification. Remember the first batch of Mi-35s for the CzAF? It also happened with the Mi-17/171 on several occassions. I think if you dig deep enough you'll find other examples as well, and not just for Russian equipment. Although I assume the companies involved with the latter are not up to the same level as Western companies in terms of quality control, and Rosoboron might be more concerned with delivering on-time than on-spec.

Steven, I'd appreciate it if you can keep an eye on this issue! It would help if you could find any official, or at least containing official statements by involved officials or companies.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2008, 11:44:02 PM by Webmaster »
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Offline tigershark

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Re: Algeria to return 15 MiG aircraft to Russia over inferior quality
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2008, 04:57:05 AM »
I agree based on a French newsletter this isn't in stone.   I think the Venezuelan Flankers frames being Chinese rejects would have surface before.   I can almost see the French President flying over the Med right now headed toward Algeria? javascript:void(0);
Grin

Offline tigershark

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Re: Algeria to return 15 MiG aircraft to Russia over inferior quality
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2008, 01:08:51 AM »
 Bouteflika backs up OPEC Gas cartel
Belarusian experts advised Algeria to turn back MIG 29 aircrafts

Algeria’s decision returning MIG 29 aircrafts to Russia has been taken following an advice from Belarusian experts dealing with the Algerian Defence Ministry, Russian sources mentioned.
The Belarusian experts assumed that MIG aircrafts were constructed with old date spares, while MIG spokeswoman denied having cancelling armament contracts sealed with Algeria.
Furthermore, the Russian Press Agency RIA Novosti said yesterday that the problem with MIG aircrafts to be returned to Russian firms by next month have been raised by Belarusian experts granting technical maintenance for such aircrafts in Algeria.
However, a spokeswoman for MIG Group Elena Fedorova rejected to make any comment on the issue, saying: “All I can say is that the contracts haven’t been cancelled.”
In this context, military experts said, during the first day of President Bouteflika’s state visit to Russia, that Algeria has requested rearranging MIG aircrafts then getting them back without any intention suspending military cooperation.
As far as OPEC Gas project, President Bouteflika said: “defending interest of oil producers urged us to create OPEC in 1960, it’s a lesson that we shouldn’t forget.”
He implicitly backed up OPEC style gas cartel while calling for improving the management of Gas Exporters Forum, saying: “it should play a more dynamic role than the role playing now in oil sector.”

Link to story
http://www.elkhabar.com/quotidienFrEn/lire.php?idc=158&ida=98133

 



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