MILAVIA Forum
Military Aviation => Military Aircraft => Topic started by: Gripen on November 23, 2006, 08:17:38 AM
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I was just on this website and i found a section on the MiG 35, but it is kinda old. I wanna know if anyone has anymore info on this plane.
Here is the link to the site that i found:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/mfi.htm
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I think the MiG-35 and the one on the page your link takes to are two different things.
The MiG-35 is, as far as I know, a MiG-29 M2, with TV.
What do you say?
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Aint that a Russian version of Eurofighter used by the Chinese??
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No Viggen, I think you're referring to the J-10 that the Chinese recently came out with. Fact is, the J-10 was built with the aid of the Israelis, so much so that the J-10 is really an Israeli fighter that was developed a couple of years back, but now it has the Chinese flag on it. I got this info on the lates combat aircraft mag.
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Ohh, they looked so similar at first. So this MIG-35 is it in service or still a flying prototype? According to the link by Gripen they would not accord any new planes until after 2005... :)
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Yes it says that, but that article is like 7 years old. It was made in 1999
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What is a Yak-141 Freestyle??
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/yak-141.htm
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Both aircraft were experimental. Russia doesn't have the finances to mass produce these aircrafts. And if they did, it would certainly be in very, very limited numbers.
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As it says on the page:
The project has been under development since 1986, is variously designated the 1.42, the 1.44, I-42 and I-44 - the "MiG-35" and "MiG-39" designations are informally applied by some observers.
This time it is the media that made up the MiG-35 designation, not even the MiG design bureau. However MiG OKB has recently accounced to call its MiG-29OVT (MiG-29M2 with TVC probably yeah) the MiG-35 in the marketing campaign. However the MiG-35 which will be taken in production (if so) might even not be the same as the MiG-29OVT...making the latter again a one-aircraft designation. Now to make it all worse, if the Russian AF decides to buy the MiG-35, it is not sure it will adopt the designation! It might go back to MiG-33, or just call it MiG-29M3 or whatever. As you know the Russian AF flies the Su-27M, does not use Sukhoi's Su-35 designation for it. But the Navy however did adopt the Su-33 a few years back for the Su-27Ks. Really strange, those Russians.
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I cant work out aircraft people
it would be so much easier to stick a jet engine in a bus and pack it full of explosives and fly/drive that into whatever they want to die!
itd be cheaper, and theres like millions of buses in the world.
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Hello all
From what know and able to find out a Mig-35 is a build off the Mig-29M/K model Fulcrums, and now has 8 hard points instaead of six and AESA radar as well. I'll attach a bunch of links so you can check them out.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=104538
http://media.bharat-rakshak.com/aero/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1287&g2_serialNumber.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0Rmvn7SVhg
http://www.take-off.ru/
http://pilot.strizhi.info/2007/01/10/1593#more-1593 (This is where I found it first and seem to have tons of info)
In English
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://pilot.strizhi.info/2007/01/23/1918&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://pilot.strizhi.info%26hl%3Den
Enjoy
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Right, Gripen. Just right.
I enjoyed it alright. Hm. I agree with you there, but thse Russians have been known to do strange things with aircraft designs...
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From the web sites I attached http://www.aviapedia.com/category/fighters/mig-35/ it appears that the Mig-35 might have a future in a sense that it might be the most advance model Fulcrum built. A lot I think depends on if funding which is directed at this project and if Russia owns air force places an order for them. Will Russia themselves purchase this jet or incorporate just some of these upgraded features into there current Mig-29 squadrons? Another big factor for Russia to get this new aircraft into production will be winning India’s new fighter tender. With new ASEA radar, increase internal fuel, improved cockpit layout the MIG Corporation seemed to have addressed all the past Fulcrums short comings.
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I just read that Sukhoi's fighter jets will not take part in any of the flying display at this year's Paris air show due to costs. There will be another aerobatic team from Russia this time, presenting MiG's multi-role thrust-vectoring fighter, the MiG-29OVT, also called the MiG-35 Fulcrum F. Thrust vectoring increases flight maneuverability, allowing the plane to actually dance on its tail. I'm surprised at this I would thought both jets types would have been flying a, another missed chanced for Russia. And what a perfect time for Russia Yak-130 to take to the skies too I guess marketing isn't a strong Russian suite
This is the link where I found the info
http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20070604/66651066.html (http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20070604/66651066.html)
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I hope that at least one TVC bird from Russia will be at an airshow when the fiercesome Raptor visits Europe....
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people would scream for a dogfight, and I would pay in years of my life to see that :o :o :o
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BTW, welcome to the forums!!!
I knew you from somewhere else, but I am sure you will make new friends here ;)
Enjoy :D
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Raptor vs. Russian top-of-the-range. Oooh, look, shrapnel. HEY, WHERE'D THE PLANES GO???
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MiG-35 - the best light fighter in the world! It not sympathies, and the fact. Not only that it possesses a supermaneuverability so it still and is undistinguished, or is at all imperceptible for radar stations. By the way, I for the first time have seen him alive when was on aviashow MAKS-2005 (then it for the first time and showed). On August, 23rd (already absolutely soon) I shall go on MAKS-2007. A photo I shall necessarily lay out.
P.S.: to compare MiG-35 with F-22A "Raptor" - it is not absolutely pertinent. First, it is different fighters on a class. Secondly, MiG-35 can conduct fight with "Raptor" only on a near distance. Fight on average and distant distances, most likely, is impossible. Though, probably, onboard radar station MiG-35's can find out F-22A and on these distances. In any case, in near fight at approximately identical readiness of pilots of both fighters, at F-22A does not have any chances. :)
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Ooh a Raptor killer. YAY
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its a copy of mig29 with thrust vectoring, multi role platform
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A real MiG-35 has yet to be build. Right now, it's nothing more than a marketing designation for a new MiG-29 generation.
The one you've seen at MAKS 2005 and also showed at Farnborough 2006, is the MiG-29OVT, which is nothing more than a demonstrator of the TVC on the RD-33 engines and new flight control system, built from one of the MiG-29M prototypes. The MiG-35 is a proposed version featuring the TVC engines and FCS of the MiG-29OVT, and the improvements of the M and M2 upgrades. It is marketed to the Indian Air Force for the M-MRCA requirement, with high commonality to the Indian Navy MiG-29K/KUB (which is a new MiG-29K development, not the old version). Plans therefore include new RD-33MK engines and Zhuk-ME radar. It really depends on whether the IAF will pick the MiG-35, otherwise the MiG-35 might end up different according to another customer's wishes.
Actually, the TVC engines are optional for the MiG-35. So it might end up as more of a MiG-29M3 eventually with standard RD-33s.
The Zhuk-MAE AESA radar is also being tested and will be integrated on the MiG-29M2 prototype, so that will probably also be an option on future MiG-35.
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I just found this forum and it had a post stating some info about Mig-29M so I thought I would post it.
The new run aluminium alloy “01420” which was largely used in the construction of the apparatus is one of the essential characteristics of Mig-29M just like the almost total replacement of riveting by the welding. These innovations made it possible to reduce the total mass of the plane (mainly thanks to the lighter weight unit of new alloy and to the abandonment of the assembly of sheet aluminiums by covering) and to more fully use the interior volume of the body to place the fuel (what was impossible before because the riveted joints could not be sealed perfectly). The new system protection of the engines against the ingestion of foreign body, made up of lattices laid out in the ventilation shafts made it possible to remove the air intakes on the dorsal surface of the leading edges and to use volumes thus released to place kerosene there. As for the use of materials absorbing the radiosignaux ones, it made it possible to reduce reflective surface radar.
http://66.249.91.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://www.red-stars.org/forum/viewthread.php%3Ftid%3D72&prev=/search%3Fq%3D70%2B%2509MiG-29SMT%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3DmJY%26sa%3DG
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Again, the poor craftmanship of the Russian fighters is obvious. These guys want to built tough machines, but in general they use crude technics. I hope that my beloving Flanker has already used this high tech (for the Russian standards)....
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Guys guys guys. Watch the grammer and spelling. You're making mistakes EVERYWHERE. Um, Sergei and karun. Welcome to the forum. Look, i know some people sympathize with close-up dogfighting aircraft only, so i'm going to say this once. The Americans, as usual, do not have the unlimited (or at least that's the general impression Russia exudes) supply of men and resources. And. They need the pilots who HAVE won a battle to live to fight another day. Concept sound familiar? Thought so. BVR-efficient aircraft suffer so much from critics that most people get the impression that they need a fighter escort. (At least that's what some folks here think. *#*&^#*&%#&*) *Ahem*. Then again, the F-22 is quite enough invisible to radar. And apart from that, it does happen to be in production. Albeit a small scale. We'll discuss that another time. It does happen to be among the fastest fighters in production right now. (Long term speeds, not the jumps and drop Russia does.) And. The materials used are definitely superior to the Russians. AND. It is very mauneverable. 2D TVC and all... I respect the Russian engineers and blah blah all right, but this is stretching it. Why on earth the two planes would be locked in close combat is beyond me. Thank you my old friends for the support. *bows*. Okay, STRETCH. Where is Cobra2???
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Please, stop remarking faults in our English, people have different levels, if yours is high, then congratulations, we don't have the obligation. Plus, if you do a little more effort you'll be able to understand. :-X
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I guess that it could take a very bad pilot to drag the -22 to a dogfight with a -35, since theoritically , Raptor has all the goodies it needs to play the sniper role (aka Vasili Zaitsev - Enemy at the gates).
But if, due to bad luck, bad day, misfortune, absence of sexual activities, or anything else you might think), these 2 get in a dogfight, i give them a 50-50 or 45-55 in favor of the -35 (since the low RCS won't play any role and the big size will betray the -22) provided the Russians have replaced those "smoking heavy" devices with something more......enviromental healthy....
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Oh, hi Thomas, nice point, i think that Raptor was making just a humor...
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I do agree with Raptor. I mean, the MiG-35 Fulcrum-F and F-22 Raptor most likely are not going to get in close combat. And the F-22 would in most cases have the MiG-35 out of the skies before the MiG pilot realises it.
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Dog fighting wise the the F-22 pilot would have done something very wrong to allow a Mig-35 in close.
I really like this new Fulcrum F or what it might become. It shows promise but sadly Russia themselves need to buy it and/or at least nail down India forever 126 aircraft purchase. Talk is cheap and Russia needs to move on this fast and get a finished product into service and show the dam thing off. Funding I guess is holding this aircraft back and time is wasting.
The Austria air force buying high priced Typhoons should have been a Mig-29M or Mig-35F order, blown sale.
The Algeria large order and upgrade should have been the same Mig-29M or Mig-35F order not SMT, blown sale.
Poland I think wanted to break away from Russia a little but if the Mig-35 was ready I think their may have opt for it.
Yemen ordered Mig-29 SMT to not too long ago again should have been Mig-29M or Mig-35F order, blown sale.
If any of the above were filled I think India would have sign the papers already.
I have hope but it's fading.
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Regarding the F-22 discussion, it's irrelevant. The most likely enemy are Chinese fighters, Mirages, the occasional F-16, Su-27, and of course numerous MiG-29 of different versions. Except for Iran maybe, which will be buying Sukhoi's. And Syria would also have to deal with Israeli fighters, so that's why it want more than just Fulcrums. But eh, seems they're not getting any MiG-31 or Su-30, so who knows. Imagine the MiG-29, M2000, Israeli F-16 or F-15, Su-27 as your enemy. You notice anything? They're all equipped with off-boresight targetting with highly agile IR, you'd want TVC then. You can't get stealth, and besides on a non-wartime QRA visual ID is required... how will you do that from BVR? ( no need to answer)
The MiG-35 is an improved MiG-29 for the export market, primarily for India, but consider this: "SMT upgrades not good enough, M/M2 too close to competitors, you know what, here's the MiG-35.... see the number, it's brand new, just as capable as a Su-35 or F-35, and it has TVC. It's even better than anything the Americans can offer you *** see disclaimer. Ow the USA wouldn't sell to you? But you're not interesting in MiG-29M/M2, ow okay, you want Flankers instead, can you afford it, no? Here's the MiG-35. Ow wait, you can afford it, can you assembly them yourself? No? Let's upgrade your MiG-29s to SMT standard, or wanna swap planes? Ah, your neighbour has got those... well, what about the MiG-35 then, did I mention it has TVC!"
Russia is upgrading their Fulcrums to SMT or less comprehensive versions. It has more than it needs. And before the -35 would have entered Russian service, the Flankers are upgraded with A-S capability, bombers will have better stand-off and precision weapons. Even the MiG-31 are fitted with more A-S capability. So upgraded Fulcrums makes more sense. Especially with the T-50 coming up.So yes, funding is low and slow, especially since MiG has made sure it faces almost no competition in Fulcrum upgrade market, than in new fourth generation aircraft. However you don't need that much funding, because you can lend so much from earlier M/M2 projects, SMT, and the Zhuk radars are developed anyhow.
My view on the "blown sales" nonpilot pointed out:
Austria: as far as I know, no RFP was issued to the Russians, which basically means you can't bid. They didn't want Russian, besides no MiG-35 back then.
Algeria: Russia has many MiG-29s, it is upgrading them with the SMT package. They are cheap, especially when Russia takes back your old MiG-29s. I saw one source as quoting 1.5 billion for 50 aircraft, complete package, before the option of taking back old aircraft was discussed.. That's probably cheaper than new-built MiG-29Ms, and the SMT has better range as far as I know, which Algeria would need.
Poland: No MiG-35 back then. I think Poland couldn't have overhauled/upgraded their MiG-29s with anyone other than MiG itself. Would you buy from them again then. And yes, of course it wants to break away from Russia. It's a NATO member. All the compatability issues would need to be solved (again).
Yemen: Yemen is not that wealthy. They are SMT upgrades of their existing fleet as far as I know?
India: No they wouldn't because it's a lengthy bureaucratic process with a bid. If they stretch it long, the USA (new dev F-16s, Super Hornets, and for future F-35 possibility) and France (M2K production stopped, oferring Rafale now?) start offering more advanced aircraft. And that's even before bidding has begun. When bidding begins, I wouldn't be surprised if you see all parties revising their offers. But India needs a combat aircraft, not a (dog)fighter, so I don't think they will ultimately care about the TVC (if they're smart they put that Zhuk-MAE in, and offer it in a late batch or retrofit program for the Flankers currently on order). However because of the commonality with the K/KUB of the Navy, and previous MiG-29 experience in both IAF and HAL, it has a good chance! But because Russia is selling to China, and India is closening its ties with the west, I would put my money on the yanks. India making same mistake as Pakistan did...maybe?
But I can give you this one:
Venezuela: by offering the M or SMT, they put themselves out of the selection because it was clear (at least to me) that Chavez could afford some good planes and wanted the best. They lost to Sukhoi. Of course, Rosoboronexport is selling them. I don't know if Sukhoi/KnAAPO has better ties with the state export company than the new RAC MiG has. But I wouldn't be surprised! Anyway, would the -35 have been available, it would have made a good chance. Even the option of second hand Su-27 was considered, because it was not sure they could get the new Flankers.
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I also read in a few places where Venezuela was getting very close to buying Mig-29s, interesting. I know at the times there wasn't a Mig-35 with my blown sales comments. I should have been clearer what I meant that at least on paper Russia was offering a lot of the later model Fulcrums upgrades. I feel that if Russia themselves bought into the SMT program on a large scale and productions lines for aircraft and parts was built they might have landed a few of these lost sales. Webmaster do you know of any source where I can read about current and real operational SMT Fulcrums? I'm confused with the Algerian order wouldn't Mig have a big press coverage like Sukhoi did with Venezuela's Flankers? Wouldn't they "Mig" try and market the aircraft like having pilots talk about the old Fulcrums comparing it to the newer SMT, and how good it is? Are Yemen's Fulcrum really SMT or just upgraded S models? Thanks
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Are Yemen's Fulcrum really SMT or just upgraded S models? Thanks
Yes? Yemen really has 16 MiG-29SMT and 4 MiG-29UBT.
Now, everything, as to fighter MiG-35. This fighter - not any demonstration project. It is a fighter which has been created for deliveries to export. First of all, for participation in the Indian tender. And MiG-35, apparently, this tender will win.
As to an onboard radar station of the newest Russian fighters... Zhuk-M - yesterday. Now on Su-35's onboard radar stations "Irbis" stand. Opportunities of this station on detection of the planes created on so-called technology "stealth" are unknown. Besides, it is possible to recollect NATO bombardments of Yugoslavia. And in particular how at first Yugoslavian MiG-29 has brought down F-117A " Night Hawk ". The Same then has made it is antiaircraft-rocket complex S-125. So F-22 - not panacea. And on him means we shall find.
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Sergei
And in particular how at first Yugoslavian MiG-29 has brought down F-117A
I thought this was cleared up and confirmed that a SAM shot it down, basically flying over the SAM site.
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I doubt if the Russians have developed such a anti stealth technology. For example, the track while scan capability of the early Flankers, were unexisted, now this ability has been updated to about 6-8 (i think with Bears radar). So, how is it possible, for radars with poor processing abilities to identify, track and lock on such a difficult target? (i accept that the -22 is stealthy, at least in the front quarter).
I would like very much to see Russian electronics industry to be as modern as the Western. But what they luck is not ideas or scientists, but funding. I recall one of my professors in the university when saying, that Russians had developed better softwares to compensate for the luck of processing power.
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I'm not sure about the no-anit-stealth-radar. Both the Russian and the Chinese have been known to create fascinating things. Such as paper (Chinese) and um, ah... You know.
(I stole this idea from somewhere. I'm not sure where exactly, but SOMEWHERE). They could use the equivalent of a hole-in-ocean sonar with the radar. I can't fully recall the concept, but it was kinda sane.
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Does anybody know where I can read about Yemen's SMT Fulcrum’s in general and in English. Next I'm looking for direct comparisons between the old Fulcrums and the newer SMT Fulcrum’s. I can’t seem to find out anything on this which is strange shouldn’t there be pilot interviews saying how much better the SMT are? Thanks in advance for any help on this.
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Uhm... i think if you had the time to burn that our dearly beloved moderator, Viggen has, you could find lots of books. (no insult there, vigg.)
And, ah... Interview interview... How about... Actually i don't know about that one, but i've seen a few 1980s or was it 1990s books on, the fulcrums. Not sure if you want those...
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nonpilot, I can advise the magnificent aviation encyclopedia airwar.ru.
However, it in Russian, but data simply settling exhaustive.
I can advise to take advantage of any sensible translation program from Russian to English. For example, last version of program PROMT.
Link: http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/mig29smt.html
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Uhm... i think if you had the time to burn that our dearly beloved moderator, Viggen has, you could find lots of books. (no insult there, vigg.)
I know Raptor. :)