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Author Topic: Pakistan starts Co-production of Thunder Jet JF-17  (Read 10828 times)

Offline tigershark

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Pakistan starts Co-production of Thunder Jet JF-17
« on: January 23, 2008, 11:53:14 PM »
Pakistan starts Co-production of Thunder Jet JF-17
KAMRA: The production of JF-17 Thunder warplanes developed by Pakistan and China jointly has been started officially in Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) Kamra on Tuesday.

Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshall Tanveer Mehmood Ahmed has inaugurated the Subassemblies Co-production Manufacturing Plant of JF-17 Thunder. The high officials of Chinese embassy and Pakistan Air Force, Chinese engineers and Head of Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Khalid Chaudhary were also present on the occasion.

After the inauguration of the Manufacturing Plant, the Chief of the Air Staff while talking to media men said that these warplanes are being manufactured under an agreement and initially, an agreement was inked between the two countries for the manufacturing of 150 warplanes but the number could be rise upto 250 planes according to our needs.

Full story
http://www.onlinenews.com.pk/details.php?id=123614

Offline Gripen

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Re: Pakistan starts Co-production of Thunder Jet JF-17
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2008, 01:43:31 AM »
Specs, size, weapons etc?


Offline valkyrian

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Re: Pakistan starts Co-production of Thunder Jet JF-17
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2008, 08:32:02 AM »
Basically an F-20 style fighter, manufactured 20 years later. Same thrust as the Grippen, so they are in the same category. We could say that this is the cheap Grippen for the poor.....

Offline tigershark

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Re: Pakistan starts Co-production of Thunder Jet JF-17
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2008, 03:17:49 PM »
It looks a little like an F-20 so I'm a fan I guess basically its super modern Mig-21.  One thing for sure Pakistan will be flying this long before any Indian choice is made for the 126 aircraft deal.   Talk is a French made RC400 radar and MICA missiles not bad for mid/light fighter with six hard points.  I think China has 7 customers for there J-7 or F-7 fighter ( a wider winged Mig-21) so China may export this as a FC-1.

A rumor in a different forum has China- Exporting to Zimbabwe (12 Units) & Pakistan - Exporting to Azerbaijan (24 Units). Again only a rumor and not written by me.   PM me and I'll send you the link if you want. 
I thought Zimbabwe already purchase F-7s and received as well so if true if would be a second jet order in a short number of years.  Africa is turning into a interesting place.

Offline Webmaster

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Re: Pakistan starts Co-production of Thunder Jet JF-17
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2008, 09:31:19 PM »
Gripen, check out the FC-1/JF-17 aircraft section on this site, it's a little outdated but should give you a good introduction.

Not only before the Indian MMRCA, it will probably be operational in good numbers before the LCA Tejas. Originally Pakistan wanted it to be developed with western avionics, but they "detached" that development from the Joint project with the Chinese, enabling the development and production to continue regardless. And it has. So the first JF-17s will have Chinese avionics, latest reports suggest that the PAF is quite happy with the Chinese radar and when upgraded it would no longer be neccessary to integrate a Western radar (Grifo as prime candidate).

However, I am wondering how they sold the Klimov RD-93 issue. This Russian engine was sold to China without rights to resell them to Pakistan. Eventually something was sorted out for the first deliveries. But I don't know about this license production. Will they now be powered by a Chinese engine, or will the Russians sell them with license to China or directly to Pakistan?

I think China didn't have a pressing requirement for a light fighter, it's more an initiative of the Pakistan Air Force and Chinese Chengdu aviation industry. However, China needs to replace it's Q-5 and J-7 jets as well, and although the capability of bigger Chinese jets like the JH-7, J-10, Su-30MK2/MK3 would easily fill any 'gap' left by retiring them, this is China so they'd probably outfit a regiment or two. Then again, I haven't seen any coherent info on the PLAAF plans for this jet yet.

Anyway, what I wanted to say, this jet has been designed with export in mind, no doubt about that. Also Pakistan wants to expand it's aviation industry. Most non-aligned Arab nations, Egypt, African nations, Iran, non-aligned Asian nations, plus maybe even some South American countries are all possible buyers, provided they have the requirement and either have the budget, oil, gas, or any other assets valuable to China. But if you look closely, it doesn't look that good, most potential countries have not enough budget or rather have a smaller number of the bigger, more capable jets (Flankers ;)) plus a fleet of dual-seat light attack jets which can be used as trainer, bomber and for COIN. Besides that, the FC-1 basically needs to prove itself in performance and Chinese build quality. Like you say, they had customers for the J-7, but they weren't all happy with it.

Azerbaijan and Zimbabwe are both possible. Officials showed interest... it's not a rumor, but it's far from being selected, let alone bought. It's like showing political goodwill, offering weapon exports, any high value ticket among them will attract attention and press. In the end they might just buy guns, bullets, and some vehicles. Lebanon, Myanmar (Burma) and Sri Lanka have also expressed interest in it, but they don't have the cash. Sudan, Nigeria, maybe even Niger and Chad are all possible in the future, but not right now. Now, I haven't read anyone suggesting Mozambique, I can imagine some Chinese jets popping up there in the future. Any African nations that would have to face another nation's air force, would go for Flankers or Fulcrums instead though.

Big customers people talk about are Egypt (because it bought K-8s), Iran (because it has no options), Malaysia (because they showed interest while Pak. officials pitched it), Indonesia. Malaysia and Indonesia are going for the big guns, Flankers. Egypt has its F-16s and is promised large deals for more US weapons, although it bought K-8s, I don't think they'll go Chinese for fighterjets. Iran, I reckon getting Russian top products will be as difficult (or easy) as Chinese, plus they reportedly had bad experience with the F-7. North Korea is sometimes mentioned, but I don't think China will sell them anything.

So it doesn't look so good after all, I guess. I guess worst case scenario is Pakistan 150 plan cut short at about 100 in favor of Western platforms, and a handful of development/test/evaluation aircraft for the PLAAF, dropped in favor of more J-10s. Best case is Pakistan 250, China 250, plus 250 exports.
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Offline valkyrian

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Re: Pakistan starts Co-production of Thunder Jet JF-17
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2008, 08:31:30 AM »
Considering how small numbers of Mitsubishi F-2, IDF Ching Cuo, have been manufactured, 250 pieces are a big number. Even the F-22 (for the time 183 pieces) looks small. On the other hand, 5157 F-4, are major success, ( i leave outside the MiG-21 a best seller)...

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Re: Pakistan starts Co-production of Thunder Jet JF-17
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2008, 05:24:33 PM »
Those are all pretty expensive, far more expensive than anticipated. Look at the F-2 for example, it costs 2x more than the equivalent F-16. For your own needs that may be fine, as it's indirectly an investment in aviation industry and jobs. But if you want to export it, and compete with rival industries, then you want to keep the price low, and best way to do that is ensuring it gets produced in large numbers. Of couse it will still be cheap because of relatively low development cost, and cheaper avionics. But if you build it in small series, instead of full scale production, the parts procurement and production costs per aircraft will undoubtedly be much higher. Plus if Chengdu and PAC can only produce the minimum required by its own forces, the ROI will be much lower, jeopardizing the future of the industries.

Either way, it's a good aircraft for the PAF.
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