RAF Typhoon vs IAF Su-30MKI and USAF F-22 Raptor

[Webmaster]

There was an interesting letter among the AFM Feedback this month from an anonymous person, but obiviously from someone in the RAF close to the Typhoons.

He claims there was a one-on-one fight between RAF Typhoon and Indian Air Force Su-30MKI, during the latter's deployment to the UK even though the UK MoD has been stating it would not put its Typhoon up against the Flanker. From first-hand experience he tells that two inexperienced Typhoon pilots returned with big grins on their faces, after having 'toasted' the Su-30MKI. He says the Typhoon was too nimble and too powerful, and added that the Typhoons were not 'clean' either. He also says there's HUD video to back it up, but the MoD will probably not acknowledge it.

I suppose this is a good 'leak' for the RAF and Eurofighter, with so many people doubting the Typhoon's ability to hold its own against the 4+ generation Flanker. In my mind, there's never been a doubt about the Typhoon abilities and I've always thought the Su-30MKI had been overestimated. It's a 3rd generation design developed into a two-seat derivative for combat training and then developed into an interceptor controller, before going on to become the multi-role platform. It's very heavy! Thrust vectoring helps it to still do amazing things at low speed, but that doesn't mean it can beat a lighter, extremely unstable, delta-canard configured 4th generation fighter. But I guess this puts a lot of people's mind at ease.

Interestingly, the person also revealed some unofficial inside information of the Typhoon's performance against the F-22. It wasn't able to detect the F-22, but its self defence suite did detect it being 'painted' by the F-22. The Typhoon handled the Raptor in close one-on-one combat as it did with the Su-30MKI. As he puts it "The F-22s could not 'handle' the Typhoon close in and the Yanks were shocked!" Again a fairly obvious outcome, the F-22 has had to sacrifice performance for stealth. You can't have it all. Luckily both are on the same side, otherwise the Typhoon operator would have quite a headache thinking about how to detect and creep up on the F-22. As the F-22 would have worrying about avoiding close-in fights, although that thought would not to be new.

[Gripen]

Just a quick FMI (for my info), whats the current price for a Raptor and a Typhoon??

[Webmaster]

Incremental "fly-away" unit procurement cost: cost to procure another unit
Program acquisition unit cost: unit cost including research & development
Export: commercial prices, subject to many factors

Estimates based on various figures I have seen:

F-22:
Unit procurement cost: $140-$180 million
Program acquisition cost: $300-$350 million
Export: $180-$240 million

Typhoon (Tranche 2):
Unit procurement cost: $100-$120 million
Program acquisition cost: $120-$140 million
Export: $110-$130 million

Basically, you'll have two Typhoons for the price of one Raptor, unless you're the USAF and have to pay the R&D program cost anyway.

[Raptor]

It's a safer bet shooting the enemy down from 100 miles away than from 10 meters with a cannon, right...?

[alyster]

I'm not so sure the missile can be that manuverable. I mean carry feul for 100 miles...these things are huge. And Typhoon manuvers quite well.

[Raptor]

Ah. Ok. Short range missile.

[Gripen]

I thought the Raptor was designed to go up, fire a few long ranged missiles, then go home.

Isnt the Typhoon a proper dogfighter?

[Raptor]

True. But it's medium range missile. AMRAAM stands for Advanced Medium Ranged Air to Air Missile, in case you didn't know.

The combat doctrine in both air forces are very different. True, The Typhoon stands a good chance against most fighters, but the Raptor stands an excellent chance of surviving almost any engagement.

[valkyrian]

I bet you have seen X men...there is a chic who controls the weather and kicks everybody's ass...now that anonymous person is trying to say that the EF is short of an X men plane and therefore can whipe out the Flanker and can cope fair enough with the Raptor...

First of all this "leak" is in accordance with the common logic......the new Typhoon is better than the old flanker and somewhat less capable than the Raptor...

I usually like to have my doubts with such "common logic statements"

1) If it was to dogfight, the small weight would not save the EF-2000. Remember, what counts is T/W where Flanker and EF are about equal, and furthermore, the unstable EF could never escape from a properly flown TVC Flanker, for laws of basic physics. The Flanker can just do anything, turn tighter, at smaller radius, create overshoots, stand in the air....in one vs one this would give it the edge.....

2) This doesn't mean that the EF is condemned to lose. With TVC it could do much the same, and combined with superior avionics might end as a winner.

3) For the same reasons (TVC) i doubt that it could beat easily the Raptor. We are talking for a better T/W ratio. I would bet my money on EF only if the US hadn't a helmet mounted sight system.

Maybe the outcome is fictious. Or it is like the Indian US engagement where the Eagles had restrictions on what to show they can do to Indians.

I leave a small, say 30% possibility to EF, again because i think RAF trains its pilots better than IAF.

[Raptor]

That would be Storm... Ororo Munroe, was it? WRC we need you here i'm not an X-men fan...

Now those are some arguments...

Sorry, i'm not too well informed when it comes to Russian aircraft... What's the stand-off range of the Flanker vs. the Tiffy? I know we're talking dogfights here, but i believe the standard for air to air engagement is get in close and dirty only if the BVR battles don't resolve your conflict, no?

[valkyrian]

If you compare the diameter of the nose cone of the Flanker t to the diameter of the nose cone of the EF you'll see that the Flanker has larger diameter=larger radar antenna=better range. Sure thing, the EF has better processors, so i'd say, the tws capability for the EF is better whereas the Flanker beats in radar range....

[Raptor]

That additional range over the Tiffy can be crossed in not too long? So the Typhoon should be able to get a missile off at the Flanker before the Flanker's systems have the time to respond?

Well, technically, it'll come down to counter-measures and missile reliability. I wonder what would happen if you stripped all three fighters of everything except engines and gun. Without the avionics the Typhoon would fall first, we know that, so we have to keep the software intact... But without TVC and missiles and radar, who would win?