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Author Topic: F-22 Raptor To Make Paris Air Show Debut  (Read 7210 times)

Offline tigershark

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F-22 Raptor To Make Paris Air Show Debut
« on: February 05, 2009, 03:13:29 AM »
F-22 Raptor To Make Paris Air Show Debut
Feb 4, 2009

By David A. Fulghum

The U.S. Air Force is taking the F-22 Raptor to the Paris Air Show for the first time this summer, according to Larry Lawson, executive vice president and general manager of the F-22 program.

The trip to Paris has been long delayed. A furor that surrounded the detailed customs inspection and electronic surveillance of the F-117 the only time it went to France has apparently subsided.

The new U.S. administration has no grudge against France for not participating in the invasion of Iraq. Even recent concerns about the French air force’s electronic surveillance of the Indian Air Force’s Su-30 MKI during a 2008 Red Flag exercise at Nellis Air Force Base, Nev., has died down (Aerospace DAILY, Aug. 25). Moreover, the potential for additional U.S. sales and, possibly, foreign sales has removed any remaining barriers.

To pique consumer interest, Lockheed Martin has revealed better than expected performance for the stealth fighter.

The F-22s overperformance includes a radar cross section that is “better” than was contracted for, the company says. That classified requirement has been calculated at a -40 dBsm, about the size of a steel marble. By contrast, the F-35 is thought to be a -30 dBsm, the size of a golf ball. Supercruise is at Mach 1.78 rather than Mach 1.5. And acceleration – although company officials would not say from what speed or at what altitude – is 3.05 seconds quicker than the requirement of 54 seconds.

In nonafterburning military power the Raptor can operate at just more than 50,000 feet. However, it is known that the F-22 opened its aerial battles at about 65,000 feet during its first joint exercise in Alaska, apparently using afterburner.

There also is a mysterious admission that the range of the Raptor’s Northrop-Grumman/Raytheon active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar is 5 percent greater than expected. That means a cushion of an additional 5-6 miles of detection range against enemy aircraft and missiles.

Source
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/F22-020409.xml&headline=F-22%20Raptor%20To%20Make%20Paris%20Air%20Show%20Debut

Offline valkyrian

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Re: F-22 Raptor To Make Paris Air Show Debut
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2009, 11:17:07 PM »
F-22 Raptor To Make Paris Air Show Debut
Feb 4, 2009

By David A. Fulghum

The U.S. Air Force is taking the F-22 Raptor to the Paris Air Show for the first time this summer, according to Larry Lawson, executive vice president and general manager of the F-22 program.

The trip to Paris has been long delayed. A furor that surrounded the detailed customs inspection and electronic surveillance of the F-117 the only time it went to France has apparently subsided.

The new U.S. administration has no grudge against France for not participating in the invasion of Iraq. Even recent concerns about the French air force’s electronic surveillance of the Indian Air Force’s Su-30 MKI during a 2008 Red Flag exercise at Nellis Air Force Base, Nev., has died down (Aerospace DAILY, Aug. 25). Moreover, the potential for additional U.S. sales and, possibly, foreign sales has removed any remaining barriers.

To pique consumer interest, Lockheed Martin has revealed better than expected performance for the stealth fighter.

The F-22s overperformance includes a radar cross section that is “better” than was contracted for, the company says. That classified requirement has been calculated at a -40 dBsm, about the size of a steel marble. By contrast, the F-35 is thought to be a -30 dBsm, the size of a golf ball. Supercruise is at Mach 1.78 rather than Mach 1.5. And acceleration – although company officials would not say from what speed or at what altitude – is 3.05 seconds quicker than the requirement of 54 seconds.

In nonafterburning military power the Raptor can operate at just more than 50,000 feet. However, it is known that the F-22 opened its aerial battles at about 65,000 feet during its first joint exercise in Alaska, apparently using afterburner.

There also is a mysterious admission that the range of the Raptor’s Northrop-Grumman/Raytheon active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar is 5 percent greater than expected. That means a cushion of an additional 5-6 miles of detection range against enemy aircraft and missiles.

Source
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/F22-020409.xml&headline=F-22%20Raptor%20To%20Make%20Paris%20Air%20Show%20Debut

Wow! i guess this summer i'll go to Paris! To visit Disneyland and watch the F-22!!! ;D

I didn't know the French had tried to "fish" the flankers electronic emissions during red flag. Tigershark do you know something more?


I can't but quote that the estimation of 1.78 Mach without burner is totaly useless unless accompanied by the range at this velocity.

What practical use could it be, if this was only for 50 or 100 miles?








Offline tigershark

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Re: F-22 Raptor To Make Paris Air Show Debut
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2009, 01:07:00 AM »
valkyrian do you really think the French would do that?  And use those hard to sell Rafale's do do such a thing, I don't know? 

Most fighter radar's don't pick up fighter size aircraft from much further then 100 miles or so, even a little less.  The F-22 could slip in fire off it's internal missiles and fly away at military speed.  Even if you could see it most fighters would burn their fuel up in a 100 mile tail chase at military speed.  The coolest part besides the stealth is that it can pick when to enter and leave the battle so it's fighting on it's terms, most of the time.(smile face glad we got-em)

Offline F-111 C/C

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Re: F-22 Raptor To Make Paris Air Show Debut
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2009, 06:50:00 AM »
The only practical use I can think of would be obviously less fuel consumption and less IR signature. But, I agree, I think 'supercruise' is more for bragging rights than pratical application, like the Su-27's (et al) 'Cobra' manuever. It's cool but has no practical use in air combat where the battles are waged outside of visual range with 'launch and leave' weapons.
Wars are won by carrying the 'heavy iron' downtown!

Offline tigershark

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Re: F-22 Raptor To Make Paris Air Show Debut
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2009, 01:47:36 AM »
The little I know about it 'supercruise' for it to be practical like you mentioned a lot of fuel would need to be carried.

I wonder if inner bay can be fitted with extra fuel cell or cells would it be worth then to use it for a special type of mission? 

I like to think since most of the information on the F-22 is classified that it can go a little further on 'supercruise' but I'm thinking positive. 

F-111 C/C can I assume the F-111 could carry inner fuel cells to add range?

« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 01:55:22 AM by tigershark »

Offline F-111 C/C

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Re: F-22 Raptor To Make Paris Air Show Debut
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2009, 06:03:04 AM »
The F-111 is capable of carrying extra fuel pods in it's weapons bay but I've never seen them ever configured this way. Our FB-111A Alert force jets had Soviet-based targets so they were configured with a full internal fuel load and 4 external drop tanks on stations 2,3,6,7 for fuel total of 48,000 lbs. so range was not a problem. The pylons were jettisonable so the drop tanks could be jettisoned once they were empty to reduce drag and to allow for full wing sweep (stations 2 and 7 do not pivot). By the way, stations 4 and 5 and the 2 weapons bay stations carried the "non-conventional" weapons.
Wars are won by carrying the 'heavy iron' downtown!

 



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