MILAVIA Forum
Military Aviation => Military Aircraft => Topic started by: Viggen on April 22, 2005, 02:36:15 PM
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Today was the first time i saw a pic of the SU47, never heard of it earlier btw.
Are those russians for real??
This is only my opinion, but it looked like it was taken directly from a manga cartoon. Kind of buttugly. ;)
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Yes they are for real! They just like the USAF and Lufwaffe joint program (X-29) forward swept wing aircraft. The Russians just got it to prototype stage first.
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Hi, and congratulations for the new forum.
Su-47 "Berkut" (old designation was S-37, which is often confused with Su-37) is a prototype, never planned for serial production, as far as I know. It is some sort of technology demonstrator.
Forward swept wing design comes with a number of challenges in the field of aerodynamics and construction technologies. Together with low RCS (Radar Cross Section) design techniques and technology, Su-47 is something like "ability-of-proof", in my point of view.
It is a good design by the way...
Regards
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Welcome to the forum,
As the S-37, the aircraft was a experimental prototype for the forward swept wing, FBW, and composites.
Designated as Su-47 since 2002, the aircraft is a development testbed and technology demonstrator for the next generation of Russian fighter (PAK-FA program). However the 5th generation design will not have a forward swept wing.
The Su-47 designation is one originating from the marketing department, and does not mean that Russia's next generation fighter will be designated Su-47.
And indeed, we can not stress enough times that it is not the same as the Su-37.
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I guess that if the aircraft in the future become manless, we will see those ugly forward swept wings on the fighters. Then who wants to be a pilot?? Some 14 year old nerd with glasses thick as beerbottles. :P
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Careful Viggen...that's no way to talk about our beloved Webmaster!... ;D ;D ;D
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Actually Zeke, i described myself when i was 14 years old.. ;)
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;D ;D
Actually, I don't have glasses, but was turned down for fighter pilot, because I would sustain a higher risk of back injury when pulling extreme G-loads since my spinal cord isn't as straight anymore as it should be at my age. Nothing serious, I can and could do anything, but they don't want to take the risk. Unfortunately, you don't get a say in this, because I would take the risk to become a military aviator. :P
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If those buttugly fighters would enter service f-22 will be in big trouble. Just check out it's characteristics (http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/s37/)
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Yes it would be a very lethal weapon and when i think of it some more, i belive that i preffer these forward swept wings over manless fighters. :-\
Manless fighters will probably fight it out in space, like in some god damn star wars episode. The end of sonicbooms and the rush you get from a low flying jet over your head. :(
"Thats no moon...Its a spacestation"!
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THE INFORMATION ABOUT SU-47
The Sukhoi Su-47 Berkut (Russian: Су-47 "Беркут" - golden eagle), designated S-32 and/or S-37 during initial development, is an experimental supersonic jet fighter developed by the Sukhoi Corporation.
The distinguishing feature of the aircraft is its forward swept wing, similar to that of the Grumman X-29.
Originally known as the S-37, Sukhoi redesignated its advanced test aircraft as the Su-47 in 2002. The change reflected the company's decision to market the design as a production fighter rather than as an experimental prototype. Also commonly referred to as the Berkut (Golden Eagle), the Su-47 was originally built as Russia's principle testbed for composite materials and sophisticated fly-by-wire control systems. The aircraft makes use of forward-swept wings allowing superb maneuverability and operation at angles of attack up to 45° or more. The advantages of forward sweep have long been known as such wings offer lower wave drag, reduced bending moments, and delayed stall when compared to more traditional wing shapes. Unfortunately, forward sweep also induces twisting strong enough to rip the wings off an aircraft built of conventional materials. To solve this problem, the Su-47 makes use of composite materials carefully tailored to resist twisting while still allowing the wing to bend for improved aerodynamic behavior.
To reduce development costs, the S-37 borrowed the forward fuselage, vertical tails, and landing gear of the Su-27 family. Nonetheless, the aircraft includes reduced radar signature features (including radar absorbent materials), an internal weapons bay, and space set aside for an advanced radar. Though similar in overall concept to the American X-29 research aircraft of the 1980s, the Su-47 is about twice the size and far closer to an actual combat aircraft than the US design. Like the X-29 though, the S-37 was primarily a technology demonstrator, one intended to lay the foundation for the next Russian fighter. Such a fighter must not only be as advanced as the US F-22 and Eurofighter Typhoon, but must also compete for funding with the more conventional MiG 1.42. However, Sukhoi is now attempting to market the Su-47 to the Russian military and foreign customers as a production fighter in its own right. Initial reaction was not good, but the aircraft's performance has been so impressive that the Russian government has made funds available for further testing of the design.
Recent reports have suggested that the Su-47 will eventually emerge as Russia's "5th Generation" fighter, which is seen as a competitor to the American Joint Strike Fighter. However, Sukhoi has apparently decided to abandon the forward-swept wings of the S-37, and the future production model will return to a more conventional wing layout. If true, Sukhoi may have reached the same conclusion as NASA did following testing of the X-29--the benefits of forward-swept wings are just not worth the extra cost and complexity associated with their design and manufacture.
Primary Function: N/A
Contractor: Sukhoi
Crew: One
Unit Cost: N/A
Powerplant: two Aviadvigatel D-30F6 afterburning turbofans at 68,340 lb (303.8 kN) each (original) two Saturn/ Lyul'ka AL-37FU afterburning turbofans at 63,930 lb (284.4 kN) each w/ afterburner (planned)
Dimensions
Length: 72.83 ft (22.60 m)
Wingspan: 74.00 ft (16.70 m)
Height: 19.33 ft (5.90 m)
Weights
Empty: N/A
Maximum Takeoff: 74,955 lb (34,000 kg)
Performance
Speed: 1,555 mph (2,500 km/h)
Ceiling: 61,680 ft (18,800 m)
Range: 2,100 nm (3,880 km) -- typical
Armament 14 hard points
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Has anybody played Ace Combat 5:The Unsung War? The SU-47 was one of the unlockable planes and (in my opinion) the best plane on that game HOWEVER that was just a game.
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Has anybody played Ace Combat 5:The Unsung War? The SU-47 was one of the unlockable planes and (in my opinion) the best plane on that game HOWEVER that was just a game.
Never had the chance yet to try out Ace combat 5. Is it any good?
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Combat is fun, but the story has no replay value but you can get medals for completing missions very well or shooting down (i think) 25 aircraft wit your machine guns only, anyway there are about 15 medals in all, also they have lots of planes including the SU-47. You should rent it to see if you like it.
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I sure will, but at the moment im fiddling with a space shuttle simulator. Not even near combatflying. ;)
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planning on joining NASA? :P
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ohhh noo... This is to satisfie my own curiosity. They say thay flying the shuttle is like trying to fly a brick. Its true according to the sim. Missed the landing strip with a couple of hundred meters, but in real i would have probably burnt up during reentry. Took me two attempts to get through the upper atmosphere. Besides its not that cool to fly when you cant loop the thing. ;)
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lmao, wasn't expecting to find a shuttle with super-manuverability was you?
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lmao, wasn't expecting to find a shuttle with super-manuverability was you?
Nope, but i had my hopes that all the speed after reentry would could lead to some fun, but hell noooo! Its just falls down to earth. Aerodynamics must be similar to a brickwall, all that speed is only used to reach the landingstrip. Do it wrong and you end up in the pacific, very very bad for your health. ;D
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hmmm...wonder if you can eject :P, anyway it would be fun just to spin it around on reentry and hit the ground spinning it wouldn't hurt nothing seeing how its just a game but at least you might get dizzy.
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Gave up the shuttle sim, there is not much fun to do in space....Well, i could try to fly it to Mars, but thats beyond of my knowledge of spacenavigation....The view was nice anyway. ;D
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i think the Berkut looks cool. How many planes can you say look like it? I spose there wont be any confusion to what it is if it does enter service ;D
You unlock the SU-47 in Ace Combat 6 if you shoot down the squadron that fly 8 of them, i flew it for a while but its not as good as the Gripen!
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Whoa. You're really hot about the Gripen. I hate Shuttle Sims. They're just boring boring boring.
Anyone have Micrsoft FS X. It's really, really good. I've got th 2004 one. And thats pretty good too, but... :P
I don't think forward swept wings will ever be succesful, one reason being the cost, and of course, there are the dis-advantages too, like having to do a major redesign of the fuselage, etc.
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I don't think forward swept wings will ever be succesful, one reason being the cost, and of course, there are the dis-advantages too, like having to do a major redesign of the fuselage, etc.
if they can work out a way for forward wings, then they will go nuts, like the canard set up, and delta wing, swing wing...
give it time and it will work
Gripens ;D
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Then, seeing the cost of aircraft has already multipled to over 16 times over the cost of WWII aircraft in their day, we'd have small little fighters costing more than carriers... :P
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Insert Quote
Then, seeing the cost of aircraft has already multipled to over 16 times over the cost of WWII aircraft in their day, we'd have small little fighters costing more than carriers...
um
not really on the same level because the WW2 fighters were built to get the job done, and then you need to consider inflation and different labor and stuff, so its like pointless comparing the price of a plane that is like 60 years old to a new fighter
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Oh, Puh-leeze. By the end of WWII the equivalent of the F-15-the P-51, would cost, say about as much as present day car, um, Well, a conventional car, that's for sure.
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WW2 time planes had to cost way less. Just look how much of them were built during the war. 50-100k on both sides I belive.
Now try and build up a 1000 bomber fleet of any heavy bomber - quite impossible. Fighters - well more or less possible, but just think how long it would take to accually build 1000 F-15s? Not to mention next month you may need another 1000.
Germans alone had 2000+ aces(by western standards) after the war. In 3 years 1 single pilot killed 352 planes(sic!). To compare this number - RAF ordered 200+ Typhoons to herself.
WW2 time planes were cheaper!
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Hey, i could buy 40 Mucierlagoes with just 1 F-14... :o
Ok. Then maybe the present day fighters are more effective too... We'd never reach star wars stage. According to the official annexation of all the Republic equipment (published by ??? lisenced by lucasfilms) Don't ask me, my COUSIN is the crazy one.
Interlude:
over 5000 X-wings after the wars. At the fall of the empire, they were left with half that number in X-wings and double in B-wings. Which cost twice as much. Fiction ROCKS.
And the Imperial Navy? Their Impstars are equivalent to an entire battle fleet. EACH. Over 600 of those stationed in the core worlds. a few hundred more in the rest of space. Ok, so maybe they had a lot more planets, but couldn't Lucas be more realistic? I mean, an SSD would be 24 Kilometers long... Not to mention 68 stories high...
-Awing
That was him. I'd rather have millions of fighters and bombers than a few to maintian air superiority. The germans had way superior equipment. Same as the Star Wars plot. The Brits eventually came in with better stuff. Same as Star Wars again. The germans lost all their aces once the machines were evenly matched. Same again. Um. i think there was a Colonel Baron Soontir Fel. Lost agianst the X-wings. Um. Major Tor smth. I can't remember. Von richthofen and the other immennelmann or smth guy. WWIIs a bit different, don't you think?
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what the hell are you talking about?? all the x-wings and a-wings and stuff all suck compared to a death star, but it got blown up so it dosent count.
GIMME THE MILLENIUM FALCON ANYDAY
fyi the murciealago is s**t
GIMME A BUGATTI VEYRON
1001BHP top speed 409KMH fastest road car in the world, and most expensive 1.44mill US
ooh a Vanquish would be cool :P
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*yawn* Star Wars storyline and equipment are better than Star trek's... Hm, i think you get the wrong picture here. I'm talking cost. And, um, the Muci goes 0 to 130 in .3 seconds, was it? i can't remember i hate car designs. The F-22 looks a whole lot sleeker. And faster too... >:D
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Veyron 2.6sec 0-60, all wheel drive and quad turbo's!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Veyron 2.6sec 0-60, all wheel drive and quad turbo's!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
But the fuelconsuption ends up costing a months work... ;) Gimme a real racecar, something that will truly put hair on your chest. ;)
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If you could afford the 1.4million US dollar price tag then i dont think money for fuel would be an issue.
and its too hard to get race cars registered for street use.
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Who wants to go fast on streets, its dangerous!! ;) The old Le Mans ciricut, Spa or Nüburgring in a old Group C-racer. ;D
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Aw, planes are so much safer. No risk of crashing into a building towering 50 stories above you. and even if you were headed to one, you could just go right over.
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i dont know what u people are talking about .....star trek..... but ur right a plane is safer to fly ,but what if u run out of fuel, thats gonna hurt
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Hey Viggen, google Mt Panorama, Bathurst.. tell me what you think ;)
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i dont know what u people are talking about .....star trek..... but ur right a plane is safer to fly ,but what if u run out of fuel, thats gonna hurt
No it isn't. You either eject, which hurts, or a KC-135 comes up to your aid...
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ur gonna eject over a mt ,where u can break all ur bones? >:D >:D
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Hey Viggen, google Mt Panorama, Bathurst.. tell me what you think ;)
I know of that racetrack, really fast. Its almost like the old ciricuits in Europe. Even raced on it in a racingsim. Have you ever been at Bathurst to watch those V8´s race? Aussies get a bit crazy when they visit Bathurst. I heard that they light giant fires the night before the race, and throw blazing toilet-rolls at each other. ;D ;D ;D
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been there 3 times, watched every race thats been held there since 1967.. the bonfires are true, but most of the time they burn cars! im not sure about the toilet rolls tho..
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Splitting back...
ur gonna eject over a mt ,where u can break all ur bones? >:D >:D
No... I'll eject ahead of your house so the plane crashes into it and i land safely far away.
But seriously, planes can glide, and i doubt you'll run out of fuel if your mission planning is done right.
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haha ok ,i dont think i have insurance agaisnt planes :'( :'( but u know it can happen, a malfunction in the aircraft or something like that
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been there 3 times, watched every race thats been held there since 1967.. the bonfires are true, but most of the time they burn cars! im not sure about the toilet rolls tho..
Sounds like a great party wish i could visit it someday. About the toilet rolls is just something i heard, but you know this better then me since you been there. So i trust your words instead of some rumour. :)
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They are all nutz.. the people that live at the track (its a public road normally, and people live there) are always glad that its only once a year..most of the times, the people that live there, go away on holidays for the week..
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Are the shows fun to watch??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???es"
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