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Author Topic: Sukhoi T-50  (Read 22434 times)

Offline Viggen

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Sukhoi T-50
« on: August 19, 2011, 01:51:11 AM »
Aouch!

"The plane, jointly developed with India, is expected to be marketed around the world as a cheaper alternative to America's F-22 Raptor.

Mr Putin said the aerospace industry was a vital part of Russia's efforts to diversify away from its reliance on oil and gas exports.
"

Video and whole text:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14568093
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Re: Sukhoi T-50
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2011, 01:38:03 AM »
Well, unless the US buys it (LOL) then it's not an alternative, is it... F-22 still not for sale / line will close.

Why the ouch?
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Offline Viggen

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Re: Sukhoi T-50
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2011, 01:05:26 PM »
If its cheaper then the F-22, then it will probably also compete against the F-35. Thats the aouch.  ;D

I dont know how good the T-50 is. Do you know how its stands against the F-35?
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Re: Sukhoi T-50
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2011, 06:59:16 PM »
F-35 is multi-role, for the integrated battlespace, primarily air-to-ground sphere. PAK-FA is aiming to become multi-role but with lagging Russian PGM and air-to-surface sensors/missiles and set to replace the MiG-29/31 fleet foremost and then Su-27 fleet (keep in mind 120x Su-34) and for India MiG-29/Mirage 2000 complementing the MMRCA/Su-30MKI fleet, focus will be (or remain) on air-to-air. I say remain, because it promises (arguably) more capable BVR missiles (ultra long range) and WVR sensors and performance.

But there's only few cases where they could compete. India being partner, could eventually be interested in F-35, but it won't a competition, because for India it's almost always also about tech. transfer and production/maintenance by HAL, so a small off-the-shelf fleet of F-35 might be possible but not more than that until US/NATO has a replacement for F-35 anyway. I believe PAK-FA is likely to be offered to South Korea, as alternative to its own program, but there's no way South Korea would opt to go that route and F-35 still seems the preferred option, in fact South Korea has more faith in it than any other nation. Then there's Malaysia, but it's too early to tell. And Indonesia in many, many years, which was reportedly in negotiation with Korea to join their fighter program, so it's the only country I see that could end up picking the Su-xx (T-50 is just the OKB designation) over F-35... although I doubt it will be any time soon that they will be given the F-35 option with many, many wories over the country's stability and regional balance. But they've been offered the F-16 now, so who knows in 15-20 years time.

The market is really non-aligned or CIS nations, and most of those nations will never go for the F-35 or be allowed to buy it.

The most likely scenario to me still seems it taking at least 20 years even before we see ANY operators besides Russia/India. By that time, the world will have changed a lot.

Strategically, rather than export, it's more of a concern. In that respect, I'd be more worried about its capable BVR missiles than the platform itself. The way Russian radar tech is developing, especially in range and sphere, rather than resolution, and missile tech they've already got, it's not the F-22/F-35 that is under threat, it's the freakin' force multipliers (awacs, jammers, tankers) that NATO depends on which become under threat when facing stealth PAK-FA data-linking packages. By the time the F-35s are in range to deal with the threat, they will have been taken out, leaving the F-35 as "blind" as the T-50... meaning WVR combat, where the T-50 certainly has an edge.

But I'm not the worrying kind of person some are, and I don't see it ever happening. But no doubt, T-50 is Russia's insurrance while the strike and bomber fleet will do the dirty work. It won't be much different for any buyers. That's a big difference from F-35 customers, who need it to take part in the US/NATO battle sphere.

Just my 2 cents, nothing factual.
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Offline Viggen

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Re: Sukhoi T-50
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2011, 10:11:04 PM »
Thanks Niels!

I rather listen/read about "just your 2 cents" then listen/read about someone else's guess.  ;D

PS. Im not worried. Not this time at least.  ;)
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Re: Sukhoi T-50
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2011, 04:39:24 AM »
Cheers!

Some tiny pics from the official www.MAKS.ru website.

Perhaps the best looking 5th gen so far, I still prefer the Flanker though.
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Offline shawn a

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Re: Sukhoi T-50
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2011, 06:52:11 AM »
Well, I concur with Webbie- I feel one of the main reasons for anyone's stealth these days is to take out the "force multipliers" first. No AWACS, JSTARS, Tankers, Psy-Ops, UAVs, Battlefield
supply transports, BMD Ships, CARRIERS-- did I miss anything?
In any future peer conflict, stealth will itself be used as a "force multiplier" against the highest value targets it can reach.
Shawn A

Offline Raptor

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Re: Sukhoi T-50
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2011, 04:04:05 PM »
Wow that actually really looks like the '22.  ;D Do you speak Russian, Niels?

Just a thought - if NATO is aware of this aircraft being deployed in the field, surely they would do something to keep them safe. After all, they certainly are aware that the tankers, AWACs, etc are the most valuable assets in the skies... I'm just wondering how they would counter such a threat, since there's no tech I'm aware of that can properly keep a BVR stealth aircraft from engaging a huge active radar dish that's pretty much glowing like a spotlight in a moonless night...

(Hehehe now that everyone is going to go stealth, maybe we'll see more good old fashioned dogfights and less BVR  ;D )
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Re: Sukhoi T-50
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2011, 08:53:57 PM »
Wow that actually really looks like the '22.  ;D

That's what everyone keeps saying, I don't see it. What else is a twin engine stealth fighter supposed to look like, it looks as much as a F-22, as the F-22 looked like the YF-23. Lifting body, inward placed exhaust, canted fins, etc. etc. it all isn't really pioneered by the F-22 anyway... so that just leaves a lot of differences to pick up on... rather than similarities. IMHO.

Do you speak Russian, Niels?

No, why are you asking?

Just a thought - if NATO is aware of this aircraft being deployed in the field, surely they would do something to keep them safe. After all, they certainly are aware that the tankers, AWACs, etc are the most valuable assets in the skies... I'm just wondering how they would counter such a threat, since there's no tech I'm aware of that can properly keep a BVR stealth aircraft from engaging a huge active radar dish that's pretty much glowing like a spotlight in a moonless night...

Exactly. It's not a threat any time soon, so there's still plenty of time.
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Offline shawn a

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Re: Sukhoi T-50
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2011, 10:13:33 PM »
My new bumper sticker-- "More Dogfights-Less BVR"
It's also likely that given more effective electronic countermeasures and IR Jamming, those dogfights will be with guns!
How about future HVAs armed with GAU-8As in turrets!

Offline Raptor

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Re: Sukhoi T-50
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2011, 04:42:14 AM »
Actually I just looked at a bigger picture of it and it's more unique than I thought lol.  :P

Do you speak Russian, Niels?

No, why are you asking?

You gave a link to a website in Russian.

My new bumper sticker-- "More Dogfights-Less BVR"
It's also likely that given more effective electronic countermeasures and IR Jamming, those dogfights will be with guns!
How about future HVAs armed with GAU-8As in turrets!

My guess is we're more likely to see newer missile tech in response to newer anti-missile tech.  ;D
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Offline shawn a

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Re: Sukhoi T-50
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2011, 08:18:24 AM »
It's definitely a good-looking plane, but I liked the YF-23 better. Also, the -23 was supposedly stealthier than the -22, but a bit less maneuverable.
Which begs the question-- How important is maneuverability in a stealthy aircraft? Obviously, if you listen to Lockheed (Martin), maneuverability is not so important--neither is speed. Anyone for a "stealthy attack dirigible"? (Think of the payload!!) >:D

 



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