The Mighty F-15 Eagle

[Raptor]

If you're fearless, you're dead. If you have fear but have the courage to stand against it, then, ok, maybe you can survive. But, no, the Rangers and Deltas weren't trained properly for the kind of warfare that acctually went on. They won because the Japs made a couple of major tactical blunders and didn't have the proper equipment to withstand the US onslaught.

I'm from this part of the world. Many of the big battles were fought around my country.  Ok. Maybe the Rangers, Marines, Deltas and whoever, Gurkhas, Shindits, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. did have some Jungle ops. training, but those were mainly crash courses carried out before the actual assults.

[Valiant1]

No, the Rangers and Deltas weren't trained for the warfare in Somalia, but they were still trained, and it was that training that kept them alive.  Not bad for 50-to-1 odds against them.  By the way, I was born on that part of the world.

[Viggen]

There is something called "Basic Training". This is what all soldiers fall back to regardless if they are Rangers, Seals, Delta or regular army. This is drilled into every individual and it will keep you alive when you start to feel outnumberd, helpless or so...When this kick in, you almost go on automatic. Doing what you have to do to, stay alive and keep your mates safe. 

[Valiant1]

I don't think so, basic training is boot camp, Rangers are a special forces branch of the Army, while the Deltas are a "heavier duty" special forces of the Army.  They go through a lot more rigorous training than your basic training,  although they may not be in the same league as the Navy Seals or British SAS, if I'm not mistaken.

As most know, any special forces teams go through tougher training than the "regular" units and they have to qualify first before they become members, which means really tough training.

[Viggen]

My point is that no matter what you do, you have to go through boot camp. Even if you want to be a Navy Seal. You cant just say.. Ok i want to be a seal!! You must be in the armed forces from the beginning before you even can apply for seal-training, delta and so forth. 

Bootcamp teaches you the basic of combat and survival, this will always be a part of your brain. Then if you move on to Delta, (if you are lucky enough to be choosen after some rigorous tests). You will proceed with more advanced combatskills and survival-technics and special training for explosives and so on. But what you have learned in bootcamp will always be there and save your ass when nothing else works. 

This is from a guy who have done this.

[Valiant1]

You didn't mention that beforehand.

[Viggen]

Im sorry about that Valiant1.  Anyway i really think what the rangers and delta did in Somalia was something very special and im glad most of them survived. 

I do  remember the pictures and small clips of what happend to the rangers bodies. I was truley disgusted, fanatics like that should be**************************************censured******************************************* 

[Valiant1]

Thank you, as an American, I appreciate the sentiment. 

On another subject, why did Sweden retire the Viggen?  Airframe outdated?  I find it to be an incredible aircraft. Wouldn't it have been possible for the Swedish Air Force to use the Viggen and Gripen side by side?  Viggen for heavy duty and Gripen for light duty?  What happened to the retired airframes?  Were they scrapped or put in reserve? I know a few made it to museums.

[Viggen]

We have to remember that development of the viggen-project started as early as the late 50´s. The Viggen-system was not costeffective anymore. On some parts the Viggen was better then Gripen,  however the service, refueling, weapon/avionicsystems-mod would just cost to much compared to building a new fighter in the long run. With the Gripen we can fly with NATO, same  weapons hanging off the wings and carry a much bigger payload. This way its possible to get involved at oversea  exercises or fly CAP-missions over balkan or afghanistan.  This would not be possible with the Viggen.

Why they dont use them side by side is of the same reasons (and politics). All airframes that do not end up in museum´s gets scrapped.