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Author Topic: Morocco orders 36 fighter jets from US company  (Read 6712 times)

Offline tigershark

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Morocco orders 36 fighter jets from US company
« on: January 30, 2008, 05:46:27 AM »
Morocco orders 36 fighter jets from US company
Morocco will take delivery of 36 F-16 fighter jets from US group Lockheed Martin by 2011, a well informed source told PANA in Marrakech, where the first edition of Aeroexpo, an international aeronautics show, ended last Saturday.

According to the source, manufacture of the F-16 will begin in 2009, as Morocco has accepted Lockheed Martin's bid at the expense of French group Dassault.

Dassault initially offered to provide 18 Rafale fighter jets at 2.3 billion euros, while Lockheed wanted US$2 billion for 36 F-16

Full story
http://www.afriquenligne.fr/news/daily-news/morocco-orders-36-fighter-jets-from-us-company-2008012815806/

Offline valkyrian

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Re: Morocco orders 36 fighter jets from US company
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2008, 08:12:38 AM »
Here is a question, what is better to have 36 F-16 or 18 Rafales, to invest in an aircraft over 30years or a....20+.

If anyone can answer this, then the next question. 183 F-22 or 360 F-15 (upgraded with more modern systems)....

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Offline tigershark

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Re: Morocco orders 36 fighter jets from US company
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2008, 03:15:32 PM »
The difference between a Rafale and a modern Viper is much closer then a F-15C even with a ASEA radar compared to a F-22.  Even if you put every system that's in a Block-II E/F Hornet into a modern Eagle it still wouldn't cut it.  It's like an early WW-I aircraft against WW-II P-51D or even greater.

36 vs. 18 - The base platform has a better radar and missiles 
One could form (2) squadrons vs. (1) and do it for less money
MICA cost much more then AIM-120
Vipers can mark there own targets and is battle proven
Algeria Flanker vs. Rafale or Viper, humm tough one.  Rafale's radar would pick up the Flanker pretty well and the Flankers power large radar would pick up the Rafale so in a way off set each other.  Pilot skill & training + better missile with range, might even go with the Viper.   The Rafale is nimble so close/mid to close maybe I rather be in the Rafale.   One of those fights if you could avoid do it.  Pilot skill plus training & maintenance and little AWACS should chose a winner. 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 04:36:15 PM by nonpilot »

Offline valkyrian

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Re: Morocco orders 36 fighter jets from US company
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2008, 11:07:04 PM »
My friend, considering the improvements the falcon has been through, it is not weird that it can compete with the rafale. the only major eagle improvement was only in radar. falcon has changed 2 different engines in 5 to 6 variants, 2 different air inlets, 3 radars etc. If the eagle had been through similar changes, the gap between the -22 would have been smaller.

If you neglect the stealth thing, an eagle with f-22 goodies could be marvelous. the lighter eagle needs less thrust to achieve the same t/w, so the engines could be smaller. Electronics can be put everywhere, fuel wise the eagle has the same fuel fraction, aerodynamically especially in subsonic is better, supersonically is inferior.


MICA cost much more than AMRAAM, but it is considered better, so as with the -22 against the -15, one should have the MICA.
 

Offline tigershark

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Re: Morocco orders 36 fighter jets from US company
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 10:03:00 PM »
My friend
I agree a lighter Eagle would be down right nasty even Typhoon's might have a harder time with dealing with it.  It's not going to happen people thought I was crazy when I mention it.  I think it's wrong for the US to throw away the tail end of the 4th generation market.   You must move on, why spend any money on it, etc, I made a few posts in different forums on it and people thought I had three heads.   A few F-15 pilots took offense to it almost and even at f16net it's all F-22 or F-35, nothing else matters.

I don't agree with you maybe and only maybe the first AMRAAM's Greece bought weren't as good as the French MICA, but that has since been changed.  Go to like sixty forums and the AMRAAM's is rated the worlds best radar guided air to air missile.   Does Greece have the AIM-1205 or D type yet?   Maybe webmaster can chime in and help with this friendly debate which is the best? 

I'm also interested in reading about upgraded MICA and AA-12 types both have been around for years but difficult finding upgrade info on them compared to how the AMRAAM's were brought along.   

Offline Webmaster

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Re: Morocco orders 36 fighter jets from US company
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2008, 01:43:17 AM »
Well, I haven't seen any proper comparison studies. The MICA is lighter and more agile. I think the AIM-120 C and D variants are better most of all in range. However if you want a IR seeking MRAAM, then the MICA IR doesn't have a comparable american counterpart.

With Meteor being integrated on the Rafale and most SRAAMs on the market being better than the AIM-9X, I wouldn't worry about not having AIM-120/AIM-9s. It's just a pity that you can't borrow them of your US allies in case of war. But I'm sure Dassault would bent over backwards to get them integrated if you insist on this as a requirement.

36 is definately better because of attrition rates, airframe availability, requirements for training, to name a few things. Unless it can be proven that the Rafale requires 50% less training, 50% less maintenance, and half of the Viper's attrition rate. It certainly has a far better safety record than the F-16 atm, but statistically it won't have 50% of the Viper's attrition rate...

Morocco might require two squadrons, one north, one south, then it's definately better than having 1 squadron. However, I'd think they'd be colocated then anyway because of logistics and one will be primarily an OCU I suppose.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2008, 01:47:31 AM by Webmaster »
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Offline tigershark

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Re: Morocco orders 36 fighter jets from US company
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2008, 03:25:06 AM »
Quote
Webmaster
With Meteor being integrated on the Rafale and most SRAAMs on the market being better than the AIM-9X,

What's wrong with the 9X I thought it tied or just second best to the Python V?

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Re: Morocco orders 36 fighter jets from US company
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2008, 02:44:19 PM »
Range for one. The 9X is of course very cheap, as it relies on the AIM-9's fuselage and motor. Every missile in this category has some pros and cons, any ranking of them would depend on which factors you take into account, how did it tie with the Python V?

But the point is there are alternatives which are about as good or better, so you don't have to buy a US airplane for the sake of having these missiles.
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