USA fighter dilemma

[God Bless USA]

First according to globalsecurity web site.  Simulations conducted by British Aerospace and the British Defense Research Agency compared the effectiveness of the F-15C, Rafale, EF-2000, and F-22 against the Russian Su-35 armed with active radar missiles similar to the AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM).  The Rafale achieved a 1:1 kill ratio (1 Su-35 destroyed for each Rafale lost).  The EF-2000 kill ratio was 4.5:1 while the F-22 achieved a ratio of 10:1. In stark contrast was the F-15C, losing 1.3 Eagles for each Su-35 destroyed.  The F-15 Eagle is ageing (and falling apart in flight) and the F-22 Raptor is very expensive.  Now what would you do to remedy USA fighter program for the future?

[valkyrian]

Just the fact alone that the EF is 4.5 times better than Rafale, shows that the simulation is biased. I would "buy" the result if the Rafale and EF were pretty close, say they were both having the same score.

And so much with the Raptor, it ain't "Made in Mars" after all....

[iluveagles]

FYI, there is already a topic like this........with the same idea............

Yeah, I wouldn't trust a 'simulation' done by BAE, its biased just like any 'simulation' from a private company is............besides a 'simulation' is just that, a 'simulation' nothing more. You want real results, go to Red Flag...........

Anyway, long story short, we should buy more F-22s.............the F-15 will still kill anything that is has to come up against............

[God Bless USA]

I would like to seen how a F-15 Eagle with thrust vectoring would have performed.  I know the F-22 Raptor has it.  Russia is starting to use it.  Is there anyother country using thrust vectoring?

[Globetrotter]

I think that a new engine with TVC is being tested for the EF-2000...

And they should be thinking on putting TVC on the Gripen too (imagine that  )

[iluveagles]

Many of the new fighters are being designed with it, the F-35 has it as well............360 degrees I believe. That type of technology was first tested on the F-16(US wise, I believe it was before the Russians but I may be mistaken), the F-15 was used to test the type of thrust vectoring that the F-22 utilizes, up and down...............

The Russian's tested it on the Su-27 and now have the Su-35 and 37 which use the 360 degree vectoring on both engines.

At this time, the EF2000 doesn't use TV as far as I know, instead using canards instead of elevators to increase its maneuverability. This goes for the Gripen and the Rafale as well.

[alyster]

Easy. Boeing goes back to building comercial jets, LM disapears and you can buy your fighters from Europe! 
Anyway I wouldn't be too worried about the 35s. How many Su-35s the VVS even has? However PAK-FA should make it's first flight around 2009 (?) and enter service in ??, so anyway F-22 would be a wise pick considering the future IMO.

The Russian's tested it on the Su-27 and now have the Su-35 and 37 which use the 360 degree vectoring on both engines.

I wouldn't worry about the 37 either. VVS doesn't have it.

[iluveagles]

In the end we don't really have to worry about anyone............................I mean lets be realistic, even with the F-22 in service, there is some black project out there that can kill tons of aircraft in a blink................

Russia's economy is coming back ten fold so they are going to start rearming and we are going to go back into a Cold War if not WWIII.............(no I'm not trying conspire or anything).........course this could be in 10 or 50 years................

[Gripen]

Doubt it would be a Cold War, more of a arms race like Europe had before the break out of WW1. Communism is mostly dead remember, the whole point of the Cold War was Democracy-Capitalism versus Communism.

[alyster]

Well it's still democracy vs autocracy.

Anyway I wouldn't underestimate PAK-FA, although there has been too many bubbles about it. Russians will have their 5th generation sooner or later. Su-35 is just a plane Suhkoi has and VVS almost doesn't have. So that model is nothing to be worried about.

[iluveagles]

A Cold War is not necesarly one form of government against another...............its just a political war..............so we could have another Cold War again..................

I'm not underestimating it..........I'm just not giving it anything...........until it flies.......we have nothing to worry about............

[iluveagles]

Does that mean you don't agree or don't care...............?