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Author Topic: China Expands Military Ties With Pakistan  (Read 12293 times)

Offline tigershark

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China Expands Military Ties With Pakistan
« on: April 08, 2008, 01:09:48 AM »
China Expands Military Ties With Pakistan

China has taken a significant step in meeting Pakistan’s military needs with the completion of a militarily important naval frigate as part of an $800 million deal, which analysts say will further deepen Islamabad’s reliance on Beijing as a key supplier of military hardware.

Senior western diplomats based in Islamabad said China’s interest in expanding its military ties with Pakistan is linked to its overall ambition of emerging as a formidable military and defense power in the Asia-Pacific region, with the capability of eventually reaching out to influencing the oil rich Middle East.

China has supplied arms to Pakistan for more than 40 years. But this relationship which originally began as a largely military hardware supply tie-up has developed into a strategic partnership.

“In future, China probably looks at Pakistan as a country that could help it build bridges with the Islamic countries of the Middle East” said a western ambassador in Islamabad who spoke to CBS News on condition of anonymity.

News of the completion of the first of four Chinese frigates designed to be sold to Pakistan comes as the Bush administration weighs its future relations with the newly-elected government of prime minister Yusuf Raza Gilani.

Washington’s main worry is prompted from public statements by newly-elected politicians who want to review the way Pakistan would execute its anti-terrorist operations against militants loyal to al Qaeda and the Taliban who operate mainly in a remote region along the Afghan border.

In the past six years, Washington has given direct or indirect assistance worth about $10 billion to the Pakistani government. But Western defense officials say Pakistan continues to maintain a close military relationship with China which is considered a more reliable ally.

In the 1990s, the U.S. slapped sanctions on Islamabad, first in retaliation over reports that Pakistan was preparing to manufacture a nuclear weapon and then after Pakistan’s maiden nuclear tests in 1998. A U.S. agreement with Pakistan to supply the country with a batch of F-16 fighter planes remained suspended in the 1990s, as the most widely visible symbol of the breakdown in the military relationship. U.S. arms sales were resumed only when Pakistan turned its back on Afghanistan's Taliban regime after the New York terrorist attacks, and joined the U.S.-led war on terror.

On Saturday, the China Daily newspaper reported that the formal ceremony to launch the first of four F-22P frigates built by China for Pakistan will take place on Monday in Shanghai, where Admiral Muhammad Afzal Tahir, chief of the Pakistan navy, will also be present. “They (frigates) will be deployed for the defense of our maritime interests and to meet our commitments in other aspects of maritime diplomacy,” wrote China Daily quoting Admiral Tahir.

Another three frigates will be built and delivered in the next five years including one which will be built entirely in Karachi-Pakistan’s coastal southern city. Naval analysts say, this deal involves the eventual transfer of Chinese technology that will help Pakistan eventually improve its naval shipbuilding capability in a way that the country has not been helped by any of its other allies (including the U.S.).

Responding to this news, some warned that ordinary Pakistanis are still skeptical of the relationship with the U.S. in view of that experience. “Across Pakistan, the popular view is that the U.S. is untrustworthy as an ally. China has always stood by Pakistan’s side, so ordinary people trust China as the most reliable friend of Pakistan” said one Western defense official in Islamabad who spoke to CBS News on condition of anonymity.

Coming off the experience of the suspended F-16 deal in the 1990s, Pakistan began working on a plan with China in 1996 to jointly produce a new fighter plane which it hopes will become the backbone of its air force. Known as the JF-17 "Thunder," Pakistani defense officials claim that the aircraft is comparable to the earlier version of the F-16s produced in the late 1980s and early '90s.

In the past three years, Pakistan has reached an agreement with the U.S. to purchase 18 new F-16 fighter planes and up to 70 used F-16s in a deal estimated to be worth more than $3 billion. But the country has also reached an agreement with China to jointly produce up to 250 of the JF-17 fighter planes in a deal estimated by defense officials to be worth at least $5 billion.

Additionally, Pakistan is currently negotiating the purchase of between 35 to 40 of the J-10 fighter planes which is one of the most advanced fighter planes produced by China. The deal could eventually be worth $1.5 billion, according to estimates by two western defense officials who spoke to CBS News.

Link
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/05/world/main3995375.shtml

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: China Expands Military Ties With Pakistan
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2008, 03:41:46 AM »
Quote
Additionally, Pakistan is currently negotiating the purchase of between 35 to 40 of the J-10 fighter planes which is one of the most advanced fighter planes produced by China. The deal could eventually be worth $1.5 billion, according to estimates by two western defense officials who spoke to CBS News.

Isn't that relatively very cheap??
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Offline tigershark

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Re: China Expands Military Ties With Pakistan
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2008, 04:10:44 AM »
Yes that is cheap remember labor is much lower and if I'm not mistaking there government owned factories as well.  The FC-1 is suppose to be around $20/25 million per.  No one outside China has seen the J-10 flying besides Pakistan's President and a few others so there's no telling how good or bad the fighters is.  Most are assuming it's pretty good I tend to believe it better then what China generally produced in the past.  To say it's better then a A/B Viper and even with a C/D Viper without even knowing the aircraft true weight/radar specs/ weapons systems suite/ and more, I just can't commit to that.  Putting a powerful AL-31 in a single engine size fighter should make quick and fast but speed isn't everything if you can't see what your fighting.  To date nothing the Chinese produced is on the same level as C/D Viper and on other forums (hint) some say there it's even with the Typhoon.  I can't believe the Chinese caught up that quickly because only a few years ago they were building Flankers from kits sent to them from Russia in Russian designed and delivered factories.  There bound to catch up in certain areas and there spending billions in R&D money so time will tell.  The Engine's and radar's are still two very important things China is still behind in.  I base that on two things: 1st if Chinese own radar/system/missiles were good or at least on the same level as the Russian Pakistan wouldn't have look at the French MICA/RDY radar setup for the JF-17, right?  Second about 100 J-10s have been counted from space and basically all still using the Russian AL-31.  There WS-10 and WS-13 if ready would be rolling out in the hundreds and filling Chinese made fighters up, but there not.  I think it's good for there industry and shows promise but I need more proof.

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: China Expands Military Ties With Pakistan
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2008, 04:56:21 AM »
Well, I have some kind of faith on it ::). Even if it's not the best thing available, I believe its price-quality should be enough for some AF like ours, even more considering F-16/Mirage 2000 costs. Maybe that's what they are trying to do: get some place in the market (Latin America, Africa) before rising prices... or not doing so at all. Even if it is at the level of an F-16A "only", I strongly believe they'll sale because of their prices, even more if you have the choice to equip them with Israeli? French? tech.

Well, sorry, didn't want to go too much off topic, but summing up, I wanted to point out how it's low price might gain some market for it.
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Offline tigershark

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Re: China Expands Military Ties With Pakistan
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2008, 04:24:06 PM »
Hi Globetrotter
Your perfectly on topic

I agree with you even know it might not be as good I strongly feel there is a market for such fighters.  The FC-1 or J-10 would be perfect fighters for your country to buy and both might have more of a future then ex-Vipers in a sense, if offered.  Argentina and Chile get along well I think now but they only have 10 advance Vipers the rest are ex-Holland A/B models.  So if what said is true about the FC-1/J-10 if Argentina bought them they would be a good match for the bulk of Chile's AF, in theory. 

Other nearby AF
Brazil a handful of Mirage 2000-Cs not 5 model, and lots of upgraded F-5, I think III models.  I just read a story about Brazil's F-5s a PDF file and show how I think the 23 or 26 upgrade F-5 was delivered, pretty cool.  Brazil and your country would have been perfect for the F-20 but that's a sad and old story.
Bolivia AF - Nothing


Offline Globetrotter

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Re: China Expands Military Ties With Pakistan
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2008, 05:19:10 PM »
Hi Globetrotter
Your perfectly on topic

I agree with you even know it might not be as good I strongly feel there is a market for such fighters.  The FC-1 or J-10 would be perfect fighters for your country to buy and both might have more of a future then ex-Vipers in a sense, if offered.  Argentina and Chile get along well I think now but they only have 10 advance Vipers the rest are ex-Holland A/B models.  So if what said is true about the FC-1/J-10 if Argentina bought them they would be a good match for the bulk of Chile's AF, in theory. 

Well, that's exactly what I was thinking about at the time I considered the J-10 ;) I mean, it realy is paceful here now. But what are airforces for if not to at least match your neighbours'
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