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Author Topic: Colombia wants to buy weaponry from Russia - paper  (Read 16079 times)

Offline tigershark

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Colombia wants to buy weaponry from Russia - paper
« on: May 27, 2008, 03:22:09 PM »
Colombia wants to buy weaponry from Russia - paper

27/05/2008 12:40 MOSCOW, May 27 (RIA Novosti) - Colombia is seeking to expand military-technical ties with Russia in an apparent attempt to counter the growing military might of neighboring Venezuela, a Russian business daily said on Tuesday.

Colombian Vice President Francisco Santos will visit Russia on June 1-10. According to the Kommersant newspaper, the 46-year-old politician personally contacted the Russian leadership requesting the visit.

"It's about time our countries intensified relations," Kommersant quoted Santos as saying. "There is a lot we can do together."

During his visit, Santos will most likely attempt to convince Moscow to revise its policy in Latin America, mainly in regards to arms trade.

Colombia is worried about the Hugo Chavez regime's military buildup, boosted by Russia's arms exports.

In the last three years, Venezuela has bought 24 Su-30MK2V fighters, Tor-M1 air defense systems, 31 Mi-type helicopters and 100,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles from Russia. Caracas is also planning to conclude several contracts with Russia next month on the purchase of military equipment worth at least $2 billion, including transport planes, submarines and attack helicopters.

Relations between traditional rivals Colombia and Venezuela seriously deteriorated after the fiercely anti-American Hugo Chavez came to power in Venezuela in 1999.

Chavez has branded Colombian President Alvaro Uribe, the United States' main ally in South America, "Washington's poodle" and warned that war could break out if Colombia struck on Venezuelan soil.

Bogota has repeatedly accused Caracas of supporting rebels from the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC).

The region was brought to the verge of armed conflict at the beginning of March when U.S.-ally Colombia bombed a FARC rebel camp in Ecuador, killing 24 rebels. Venezuela and Ecuador then sent thousands of troops to the Colombian border, but a peace deal was soon reached.

At present, Columbia is determined to maintain the balance of forces in the region even if it means buying Russian weaponry. In exchange, Bogota hopes to convince Moscow to reduce arms exports to Venezuela, Kommersant said.

According to the paper, Colombia is willing to order attack and transport helicopters, Sukhoi fighters and armored vehicles.

Francisco Santos is one of Colombia's most influential politicians and the likely successor to President Alvaro Uribe.

Source
http://en.rian.ru/world/20080527/108540364.html

Offline SAS73

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Re: Colombia wants to buy weaponry from Russia - paper
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2008, 07:44:27 AM »
But nonpilot, What weapons this time Colombia could buy from Russia? I know that we here use Mi-17 helicopters, not the best but very practical at the time to transport a full platoon of soldiers. What else, a RPG-22, an Anti-tank weapon. What else, fighters? Ammo? Choppers? Tanks? I think komersant is not a fiable source of news.

Offline tigershark

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Re: Colombia wants to buy weaponry from Russia - paper
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2008, 03:16:15 PM »
SAS73 I totally agree I don't think the source of this article is very good.  Let me ask you will this "Vice President Francisco Santos" most likely be the next President?  I don't think Russia would mess with there 3rd or 4th largest customer (Venezuela) right in the middle and yet another deal.  The subs, transports, SAMs, etc aren't in stone yet so messing up those for Colombia a smaller client doesn't make sense.  On some levels I do believe Russia would sell to both side like for helicopters, radar's, small arms, maybe even mechanized equipment, but not Su-30s or other big ticket items.  On the flip side I don't think Colombia really wants Russian type equipment on a large scale.  To me Colombia is a American shop with a few Israeli and French stores but basically western made in the end.  This whole thing will blow over and it may get Colombia F-16s sooner. (wink)

Imagine down the road Block-52+ as Colombia's hi end fighter and for it's low end work Kfir's C-10CE.  You'll have to dream sometimes.  (smile)

Offline tigershark

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Re: Colombia wants to buy weaponry from Russia - paper
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2008, 06:13:05 AM »
Colombia the New Venezuela
// Bogota ready to buy Russian arms
Colombian Vice President Francisco Santos will visit Russia at the beginning of next month. It will be the first visit on that level in the history of the countries’ relations. Kommersant has learned that the main topic of talks with the South American guest will be Russia’s military-technical cooperation with Venezuela. Worried about the Hugo Chavez regime’s military buildup, Colombia wants to maintain a balance of power. For that purpose, it is prepared to buy Russian weapons. In exchange, Bogota hopes to convince Moscow to reduce arms supplies to Venezuela.
The Colombian Negotiator

Colombian Vice President Francisco Santos himself confirmed his upcoming trip to Moscow for Kommersant. He said that he personally contacted Russian leaders to ask to visit. “It is time for our countries to intensify relations,” he said. “There is a lot we can do together.” The Russian Foreign Ministry also confirmed Santos’ visit. His visit will be the first on such a high level between the two countries. Besides Moscow, he will visit Kazan and St. Petersburg, where he will speak at the International Economic Forum on the invitation of Minister of Economic Development Elvira Nabiullina. The length of the visit is an indication of the importance Bogota places on it. He will stay for ten days, from June 1 through 11. “I don’t spend that long in many places,” he acknowledged to Kommersant.

The importance of the visitor also confirms the importance of the visit. The 46-year-old Santos is one of Colombia’s most influential politicians and is the likely successor to President Alvaro Uribe. He is a talented and intellectual diplomat and a natural orator, who came to politics through journalism. Don Francisco belongs to the powerful Santos clan, which owns El Tiempo, the country’s leading publisher. In the 1980s, Santos was the editor-in-chief of El Tiempo newspaper and wrote a column devoted to the kidnappings and murders committed by the drug mafia. In 1990, he shared the fate of those he wrote about when drug kingpin Pablo Escobar kidnapped him. His eight-month ordeal was described by Gabriel Garcia Marquez in his book News of a Kidnapping. After his release, Santos taught at Harvard for two years, then returned to his homeland to found the Free Country Foundation. He was a vice presidential candidate in 2002 on the ballot with Uribe. They received 53 percent of the vote, and were reelected in 2006 with 62 percent.

Santos now managed key political projects, among them the battle against kidnapping and corruption and his is likely to become the next president of Colombia in 2010. He is considered Bogota’s chief diplomatic specialist in delicate situations. That is what is visit to Moscow seems to be.

An Arms Proposal

Colombia’s unexpectedly ardent desire to establish close relations with Russia has an unseen aspect. Otherwise Bogota would have sought the contracts its needs not across the ocean, but with the United States, its closest ally and patron. Kommersant has learned that Santos will try to convince Moscow to amend its Latin American policy, especially in arms sales. The exceptionally high level of military-technical cooperation between Moscow and Caracas seems to have pushed Colombia to take action. Relations between Colombia and Venezuela have never been warm and they deteriorated after fiery anti-American Hugo Chavez came to power in Venezuela in 1999. Uribe is one of Washington’s most loyal allies in Latin America. Recently, relations between Colombia and Venezuela have been close to the breaking point lately. Bogota has accused Chavez of supporting FARC. Colombian intelligence received documentary confirmation of that when they obtained the notebook computer of Raul Reyes, the second-in-command in FARC, which was killed in Ecuador. In response, Chavez said that Colombia carries out political orders from the U.S. and provokes American military intervention in the region.

Bogota feels that it is the multibillion-dollar arms shipments from Russia that give Chavez his self-assurance in his conflict with Colombia. In the last three years, Venezuela has bought 24 Su-30MK2V planes, Tor-M1 air defense systems, 31 Mi-type helicopters and 100,000 Kalashnikov machineguns. The last item is of particular concern to Colombia. The Venezuelan Army clearly has no need of such a high quantity of machineguns. Bogota suspects that Chavez is generously sharing his machineguns with FARC rebels. That is why Santos’ mission is to make it clear to the Russian leadership that thoughtless arming of Venezuela threatens to the destabilization of the region.

Colombia understands that, in spite of Chavez’s anti-American rhetoric, relations between Russia and Venezuela have no ideological base, rather they are based on commercial interests. In that connection, Bogota is ready to offer the Russian military-industrial complex its own market. Kommersant has learned that Colombia is ready to obtain fighter and transport helicopters, like those Bogota already purchased once, and it is looking at Sukhoi jet fighters and armored vehicles. In addition, Bogota has shown interest in Russian radar for air traffic control, territorial monitoring systems and night vision equipment. Konstantin Makienko, an expert at the Center for the Analysis of Strategy and Technology, suggested that Russia has a good chance of selling Colombia at least the helicopters and armored vehicles, which sell well in Latin America.

Doubts about Moscow

Bogota’s commercial proposal apparently is not limited to a military order. Santos told Kommersant that he will take part in an investment forum called “Colombia, A Mine of Opportunity” in Moscow. There, Santos is counting on talks with the heads of leading Russian energy companies, such as LUKOIL, Rosneft and Gazprom. Lukoil Overseas has been active in Colombia since 2002 and is exploring the Llanos Basin, one fot he country’s largest oil and gas basins, jointly with the Colombian company Ecopetrol. LUKOIL confirmed yesterday that talks between its executives and Santos were likely. Rosneft and Gazprom declined to confirm any negotiations with Colombia.

In addition to the energy talks, Kommersant has learned that Santos intends to discuss the modernization of Colombian railroads with Russian Railways president Vladimir Yakunin. “Colombia is increasing its coal and oil production, and the transportation system has to be improved to facilitate its movement,” Colombian Ambassador to Russia Diego Tobon said. Spokesmen for Russian Railways were unable to confirm the talks with the Colombian vice president.

Experts say that Russia would profit from Colombia’s proposals. “Russia has an interest in having a multifaceted and pragmatic policy in Latin America, so Russia is not likely to lay stress on a single country there,” commented Vladimir Davydov, director of the Russian Academy of Science’s Latin American Institute. “I think Russia will respond positively to Colombia’s proposal. There is potential for cooperation with that country and it is considerable.” However, it looks as though Moscow will have to heed Bogota’s request to ease away from its intense military technical cooperation with Col. Chavez. It is uncertain whether Russia is prepared to do that. A source in the Russian military-industrial complex told Kommersant yesterday that “the question is not commercial, it is political. It will be decided on the highest level.”

Miguel Palacio, Bogota; Alexander Gabuev

All the Article in Russian as of May 27, 2008

Source
http://www.kommersant.com/p896309/arms_sales_Colombia/

Offline SAS73

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Re: Colombia wants to buy weaponry from Russia - paper
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2008, 08:36:29 AM »
 Bogota is ready to offer the Russian military-industrial complex its own market. Kommersant has learned that Colombia is ready to obtain fighter and transport helicopters, like those Bogota already purchased once, and it is looking at Sukhoi jet fighters and armored vehicles. In addition, Bogota has shown interest in Russian radar for air traffic control, territorial monitoring systems and night vision equipment. Konstantin Makienko, an expert at the Center for the Analysis of Strategy and Technology, suggested that Russia has a good chance of selling Colombia at least the helicopters and armored vehicles, which sell well in Latin America.

-Well here is a good base to buy some weapons from Russia. A BTR APC utility transport and Armored tank is an excellent option. In Cartagena a military factory produce this tank under a Russian license. Also a another Fleet of Mi-17 is a good choice and a Mi-35 attack helo will be just awesome. they perform well over here. Radars also well needed I think one military near venezuela and another for traffic control in the Capital, Bogota. And the Sukhois? mmm let me think, I dont know if Colombia has the budget to buy some of them (Su-30), a Su-25 could be? mmm better not.

Its a very smart move on the colombian goverment to promise to Russia an excellent weapons deal looking forward to obtain a military balance in the region. But here is the funny part how Russia and their military industry makes profit by the conflict of two or may be three South American nations. I think its time that the US Goverment decide to support more to Colombia. its not enough the money that the Colombian Goverment recive from the US under the political "Plan Colombia". now Colombia has to deal with two agressor goverments  (Venezuela and Ecuador) and the FARC together. Is very well known that Chavez and Correa are giving support to the FARC. May be as nonpilot suggested under a Political and military cooperation plan the US could give to Colombia some upgraded F-16 to face the thread of the Sukhois as Chavez said before.

PS: And what will happend if Obama is elected in the US? I dont know if he is very inform about the situation in Colombia and Venezuela. As for now he opposes to the TLC with the US and Colombia.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 08:41:39 AM by SAS73 »

Offline SAS73

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Re: Colombia wants to buy weaponry from Russia - paper
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2008, 10:26:55 PM »
Colombian vice-President Moscow-bound for arms talks

COLOMBIA: Colombian vice-president Francisco Santos will visit Moscow next month to discuss buying arms from Russia, and to try to persuade them to reduce such sales to Venezuela, a press report said Tuesday.
"It is time for our countries to deepen our relations," Santos told the daily Kommersant. "We can do a lot together."
Santos said he had approached the Russian authorities directly to arrange the meeting, which will run from June 1 to June 11. A Russian foreign ministry official confirmed the visit, the paper reported.
The paper also suggested that Santos would try to persuade Moscow to revise its policy towards Latin America, particularly in regards to arms sales.
Over the last three years, Russia has sold 24 Sukhoi fighters, 53 helicopters and 100,000 Kalashnikov automatic rifles to Venezuela, its biggest client in the region, for more than three billion dollars, the paper noted.
Colombia has accused Venezuela of supplying Colombia's left-wing FARC guerillas with weapons, a charge that President Hugo Chavez has denied. Moscow, Wednesday, AFP 

http://www.dailynews.lk/2008/05/29/wld05.asp


Offline tigershark

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Re: Colombia wants to buy weaponry from Russia - paper
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2008, 12:18:43 AM »
I don't think he's going to have a lot of luck convincing Russia who's economy is much more depended on arms sales then the US to not sell arms in South America.   SAS73 I know Colombia has the right to buy weapons from whom they want from but if Colombia's jets from Russia the US is going to flip out.  I just can't see Colombia buying any large items from Russia I think this whole trip is setup just to try and stop Russians from selling anything else to Venezuela.    And I don't see that happening anytime soon with SAMs, transports, and maybe subs on the way. 

Offline SAS73

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Re: Colombia wants to buy weaponry from Russia - paper
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2008, 02:15:44 AM »
I think that colombia is interested to obtain RADARS, Armored tanks (BTR´s), RPG´s and why not SAM systems. a S-300 could be just awesome.

Offline tigershark

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Re: Colombia wants to buy weaponry from Russia - paper
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2008, 05:00:23 AM »
I'm not big into ground warfare but I know some tanker guys and the rate the BMP-3 pretty high.  Decent fire control and a solid 30mm auto team with a more powerful engine.  The new South Korean IFV may have copied the auto cannon and turret from the Russian.  My tanker friend doesn't like the BTR-80 and BTR-90 they have small side entrances and aren't easy to get in and out of.  The BTR-90 comes in many forms: IFV type, APC, anti-aircraft, anti-tank, seem useful but there are many wheeled vehicles on the market.  Colombia needs something to offset Venezuela's tanks because basic infantry doesn't do well against mechanized forces.   Artillery tracking radar is a tool I would buy if I were purchasing weapons for the army.   Keep a few MLR 30 or so miles back near the most used larger roads and rain down tank and vehicle killing rockets.   MLRs are another weapon I would buy you could shoot a bunch of rockets into a group of tanks, IFV, APC, etc providing you had a target and change your position.   It out ranges 155mm guns so even if Venezuela had heavy artillery moved up on the border the MLRs would be out of range. 

S-300 would be a good weapon to buy but remember Venezuela has more money to buy more weapons.  Buying wars you'll lose there the 5th largest oil producer in the world.  Your country needs to train hard and really know every weapons system and platform your have.  Colombia needs to raise it's training standards above Venezuela with the limited funds it has.   In a way kind of like Chile small armed forces in total size but well trained.  That copper law help them big time buying up used Leo II gave them a real tank force to go with there 10 Block-52 and 18   A/B Vipers from Holland.  Aircraft and tanks is where Colombia doesn't match up well against Venezuela.  Anti-tank weapons are cheap enough advance fighter aren't and it takes about five years to get good on them and supporting them.   

The below link is what Colombia needs but it's almost $5 billion dollars
http://www.milavia.net/forum/index.php/topic,1526.0.html
http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2008/Romania_08-55.pdf


 

Offline SAS73

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Re: Colombia wants to buy weaponry from Russia - paper
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2008, 10:25:50 AM »
nonpilot, why do you insist on the F-16??? I think to the US never said it will let go some of them to Colombia as military support or cooperation. the F-16 need new training, new rond crews, new training on air refueling, new tanker and refueling system. It will be just awesome to have F-16 under the wings of the FAC. but its a dream never will be true. I dont know why in the military corredors there was a speculation about the ambition of Colombia to having the Gripen. For sure the FAC will have a SAAB AWAC system under an embraer 190 aircraft plataform. about the BTR Colombia produce the BTR-80 here is a video from that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIYLdI_s10k


Offline tigershark

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Re: Colombia wants to buy weaponry from Russia - paper
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2008, 02:19:34 PM »
SAS73 my friend I don't want your fine country slipping to the "Red Side" of the force.   I'm joking about the red side there aren't many fighters out there on the market that Colombia can purchase with the American ok stamped on it.  Your country is out best allied in South America period and I wouldn't want that to change.  Buying too many advance weapons from other suppliers might effect the balance of things. 

Any new 4th generation fighter would need those items you mention so any choice would be costly.  The start up and up front money needed would run into the hundreds of millions for sure.  What choice does your country have really Venezuela bought into a fighter program and are taking the slow first steps toward having a modern platform.   The SAAB AWAC system under an embraer 190 aircraft platform is a useful tool to have but if you can't protect it, it becomes a target.  The Kfir's were a good step but once Venezuela's pilots are trained up they become less effective in the big picture.  Even 1 vs. 1 or 3 vs.3 the Flanker has capabilities even Vipers can't match but in groups support by AWACS teamed with well trained forces the Viper can keep you in the fight.   US trainers and support could show your pilots and support personnel how to stay in the fight better then most other aircraft suppliers can against Flankers.  I can assume the US can focus special training geared toward Flanker threats.  Air power is just too important and your government unlike others in South America have a very real possible threat next store.   Its not going away and your government needs to address this issue very soon or chance falling to far back. Your government needs to convince my government to sell advance fighters now some how.  If your government took $4 or $5 billion out of the $10 billion in arms or aide we give you a year could Colombia's other branches of your armed force survive such a hit in funds?   

javascript:void(0);
Smiley

Offline SAS73

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Re: Colombia wants to buy weaponry from Russia - paper
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2008, 10:56:36 AM »
I think that the Colombian Goverment and the Colombian budget cant afford an invest in $4 or $5 billions just to buy western or russian fighters. Colombia has also responsablities in all military forces, so invest on one and forget the others to bring a balance in de region? how about fuel for those aircrafts on todays oil prices?

 



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