India Worried After Russia Grounds MiG-29s

[tigershark]

India Worried After Russia Grounds MiG-29s

By vivek raghuvanshi
Published: 18 Mar 18:21 EDT (22:21 GMT)


NEW DELHI - Russia's decision to ground a large portion of its MiG-29 fighters is reverberating in India, where Defence Ministry sources say they are worried about the timely delivery of MiG-29K aircraft on order for the Navy and Air Force.

Sources also say the grounding could hurt the chances for the derivative MiG-35 in India's $10 billion Combat Aircraft order.
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Indian Air Force (IAF) officials say they won't ground their 60 MiG-29s. The force is short of aircraft, fielding just 31 18-plane squadrons instead of the sanctioned 39.5 and desired 45 units.

Russian Air Force officials grounded their 200 MiG-29s after two crashes last year. Many have been returned to flight, but 90 will remain out of action until they can be upgraded.

The crashes may also affect talks, said to be near completion, between India and Russia for the purchase of more MiG-29Ks, ministry sources said. The Indian Navy ordered 16 in 2004 for $640 million.

The MiG-35 is also competing for the IAF's $10 billion order of 126 combat aircraft against the Lockheed Martin F-16, Boeing Hornet, Dassault Rafael, EADS Eurofighter and Saab Gripen.

A senior IAF official said the MiG-35 is structurally identical to the MiG-29 SMT, which includes advanced avionics, radar and enlarged dorsal spine for more fuel. But another IAF official said the MiG-35 is better than its predecessor and comparable to Eurofighter and the F-18.

India was the first, and today remains the largest, foreign operator of the MiG-29. Part of the Russian sales pitch is that it ensures commonality with existing planes.

Indian Defence Ministry sources said the grounding might hurt the MiG-35's chances, depending on what government holds power after India's May 16 general elections.

Sharad Deshpande, a retired Indian Air Force air marshal, said, "The IAF should be in close contact with the Russian design and maintenance experts and would have obtained details of the structural defects/problems experienced by the Russian Air Force. Based on the inputs available, the IAF would have started a thorough inspection of their MiG-29 fleet and taken requisite remedial actions. Under no circumstances would they clear MiG-29 for flying if there is any question mark on its structural integrity and flight safety parameters."

Defense analyst Mahindra Choudhary said the IAF and Navy should not buy the MiG-29 derivative, which may be increasingly hard to maintain.

Source
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3995571&c=AIR&s=TOP

[tigershark]

Russia's decision to ground a large portion of its MiG-29 fighters is reverberating in India, where Defense Ministry sources say they are worried about the timely delivery of MiG-29K aircraft on order for the Navy and Air Force.

Didn't somebody realized this order was placed in 2004?  And in 2009 there beginning to worry?

Defense analyst Mahindra Choudhary said the IAF and Navy should not buy the MiG-29 derivative, which may be increasingly hard to maintain.

You think? 

[F-111 C/C]

Russia's decision to ground a large portion of its MiG-29 fighters is reverberating in India, where Defense Ministry sources say they are worried about the timely delivery of MiG-29K aircraft on order for the Navy and Air Force.

Didn't somebody realized this order was placed in 2004?  And in 2009 there beginning to worry?

Defense analyst Mahindra Choudhary said the IAF and Navy should not buy the MiG-29 derivative, which may be increasingly hard to maintain.

You think? 

The only thing I can think is they got too good a deal financially to pass up. Russia must of had a B.O.G.O. deal going!

[Webmaster]

What I don't get is the connection between Russia's grounding of the fleet and this contract. Investigation found failure of the fin to be the cause of the two incidents, caused by corrosion. Not too suprisingly, considering the latest crash involved one of the oldest MiG-29s still in service and the way these aircraft have been sitting outside on the flightline with a decade or so of not getting any attention. Furthermore, MiG stated that most foreign customers had already taken measures against corrosion on this place. Considering the excellent overhaul facilities of HAL/IAF, the Indians probably had already solved this or prevented this problem anyway. Furthermore, the Indian MiG-29 fleet should be undergoing upgrades soon, which will most likely include a full overhaul as the work is completed locally anyway.

Regarding the -K contract. Changing Indian requirements has been stated to be one of the causes of the delay. Furthermore there is the poor state of RAC MiG's finances, which means that they probably haven't been able to start work out of their pocket such as KnAAPO/Irkut have been able to do. Now, contract signed in 2004, was it a firm order, or was it a Memorandum of Understanding... in other words, when did India really started to release the neccessary funds for such a customized plane. Also, when where deliveries scheduled? 2004-2009 isn't bad for a customized version... forget about KnAAPO/Irkut 'express' deliveries, take a look at the other contracts out there... 5 years from signature to first delivery seems pretty common.

Now, on a slightly more positive note, recent news about the MiG-29K from RAC MiG (now under new management, perhaps not unrelated) the first aircraft should roll off the production line this year and be delivered to India. Furthermore, they are expecting an order from the Russian Navy too for the type, as part of the government support of the troubled company.

[tigershark]

Hi Webmaster

Also, when where deliveries scheduled? 2004-2009 isn't bad for a customized version.

You are to kind were talking 16 single seat models and I think 4 two seat types, they are not new builds and should have done this in two years.  I'm sure India changed their minds I'll give you that but MIG's in trouble and to me just didn't have the means to do it.  There not inventing the wheel here Russia doesn't have the production lines anymore nor the skilled personnel in place or at least not at MIG.

the Indian MiG-29 fleet should be undergoing upgrades soon, which will most likely include a full overhaul as the work is completed locally anyway.

You can look through my news posts in my short time posting the news and find a number of articles about these so called upgrades that never happen.  India Mirage 2000s fall into the same group still nothing done year after year.   Basically India has a bunch of old aircraft while China has more modern Flankers then Russia does.  I realized China has a lot more money to spend on production, R&D, etc, it's just that India dragging it's feet big time.  India has 70 maybe 80 front line MKI Flankers the rest are being built in batches by I think HAL now so the planned 215 I think by 2015/17.  Even the not made Su-35 will be old in 2017, I think India should buy western.   

Furthermore, they are expecting an order from the Russian Navy too for the type, as part of the government support of the troubled company.

Russia's government makes announcements all the time sorry my webmaster but I am a non believer.  I would like see some aircraft please produced and then I'll go from there.  I did find a May 2nd date for the first four Ks to be delivered to India, if that means anything.. 

India wouldn't know a good Gripen if they trip over one.