MILAVIA Forum - Military Aviation Discussion Forum

Author Topic: More budget and aircrafts promise for Argentine Air Force  (Read 10341 times)

Offline Globetrotter

  • Hero of Flight
  • ******
  • Posts: 838
  • Country: ar
  • I'm Thomas (now Globetrotter)
Re: More budget and aircrafts promise for Argentine Air Force
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2008, 11:43:02 PM »
If we buy the Mirage 2000, I think they would be 2000-5 ;), but I don't think they'd have MICAS, but Matra Super 530s. Maybe they sale the MICAs too, don't know.

According to a discussion we are having in another forum (www.mirageargentina.com.ar), people say that France might retire from service their Mirages 2000C, which are S5 (those would be the 2000-5, right?), newer than the brazilian S3, by 2011. That series (S5) is made fo 50 airplanes (which unfortunately, I am sure we won't buy them all :-\), which have a newer radar and some more ECM. However, I don't know how many of these remain in France's stock. have they sold any?
"Ad Astra Per Aspera"   (5º Grupo de Caza ≈ A-4AR Fightinghawk)

 ~ MALVINAS ARGENTINAS ~


Offline SAS73

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 146
  • Country: co
Re: More budget and aircrafts promise for Argentine Air Force
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2008, 06:06:10 AM »
Hey nonpilot lots of questions for a single hipotetical answer. I think the Argentinian ambission for the
Mirage 2000 is  to far for the reallity.

Offline tigershark

  • News Editor
  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 2025
Re: More budget and aircrafts promise for Argentine Air Force
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2008, 06:11:43 PM »
Hey SAS73 you maybe right but they have to make a start some place.  What they have is old and I can only assume high in maintenance.  Basically it comes down to money and need and for Argentina who doesn't have Venezuela or a raising Ecuador next them they seem to have time. 

Sadly Colombia doesn't have so nice but that's another post.

Globetrotter you mention you don't think they meaning the Mirage 200-5 don't have MICA, as far as I know all Mirage 2000-5 with there newer radar and weapons systems are MICA capable.  The Matra 530 is a older missile and not sure it's still in production but it might France could have some old customers still using them.  It's strange and I don't think it would happen but maybe the Chinese FC-1 or J-10 down the road would be better investments, doesn't China buy beef and wheat from Argentina now? 

Offline Webmaster

  • MILAVIA Webmaster
  • Administrator
  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 2842
  • Country: nl
Re: More budget and aircrafts promise for Argentine Air Force
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2008, 06:57:23 PM »
Only 37 Mirage 2000C out of 124 procured were updated to 2000-5F, a domestic upgrade based on the Mirage 2000-5, but retaining some old systems. All late production 2000C's (S5). I think they need to serve some more years...

S5 'better than Brazil's S3', well those did get the RDI radar (and yes Brazil got the 530D to go with it). S5 also has the uprated engine, I suppose that makes them a bit better. But it's a series production standard, 2000C S5 does neccesarily not mean 2000-5, as not all were upgraded.

The N is probably not for sale. 'Small numbers', not really, taken together more D/N variants were produced than the AdlA ordered Cs. They will probably stay in service for much longer than the C.

Rafale B is the two-seater. Rafale D was just a developed standard for the AdlA B/C variants. Apparently derived from 'discret' because of the additional stealth features.
  • Interests: Su-15, Su-27, Tu-22, Tornado, RNLAF
Niels Hillebrand
MILAVIA Webmaster

Offline Globetrotter

  • Hero of Flight
  • ******
  • Posts: 838
  • Country: ar
  • I'm Thomas (now Globetrotter)
Re: More budget and aircrafts promise for Argentine Air Force
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2008, 11:15:29 PM »
1st: Yes, SAS73, this is hipotethical, cause the FAA nor the government have released official data.

2nd: nonpilot, I didn't mean it's not possible to use MICAS with the mirage, but I don't think we'd buy that, or they's sell them to us. (Chile's F-16 can use AMRAAMs, but they don't have them.

Oh, And don't get confused with the Matras ;)

.-Matra R530: SARH missile used by Mirage III versions (argentina had them at the time the Malvinas war happened). Their performance was similar or worse than the one of the Sparrows.

http://www.geocities.com/ryanhothersall/MATRA_R_530.htm

http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/cgi-bin/res.pl?keyword=Matra+R530&offset=0

.-Matra Super 530: Improved version of the previous one. Completely redesigned. Comparable, I believe, to the first versions of the AMRAAM, but also SARH.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_530

.-MICA: with TVC :o , fire and forget.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MBDA_MICA


About the Chineese fighters... well, I think that to form a more accurate impression of them, we'd need to know more about their performance. I personally prefer the J-10 to the JF-17, which I see rather like an improved F-5... even if it's not completely true. I don't know, but the impression I have about it is not precisely robust...

The J-10, if cheap, might be an option. But Chinese made things have the reputation of not being good, or durable. Sorry, no ofense meant to anyone from there, but that's just it. Maybe the airplanes they make are very good, but they'll have to prove so. Then there is also the question of compatibility of weaponry and systems to our current aircraft. That's why it's said that, if bought, our Mirages 2000 would have to have Sidewinders (same as A-4s) for short range.

China, appart from the things you stated, buys a lot of soybean. I remember they bought 50% of our production once. :o that could make things easier... but would USA let us buy from them? I've heard they want to sell us Block 15 F-16  :-\ And there is a possibility of we buying them, unluckyly. I think you'll understand me here, where these aircraft are so old, and so "over-used" specially the navy agressors, working with high G-loads constantly. Appart from that, they probably wouldn't sell us the AIM-120, which is a vital part for improving our air superiority (we don't have BVR capability now). They did so with Chile, at least. ::)

3rd: Thanks, Webmaster, for the explanation! much clearer now :)

Well, I hope I've answered your questions, nice to discuss about the FAA  ;D... that's something not very common in international forums
"Ad Astra Per Aspera"   (5º Grupo de Caza ≈ A-4AR Fightinghawk)

 ~ MALVINAS ARGENTINAS ~


Offline SAS73

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 146
  • Country: co
Re: More budget and aircrafts promise for Argentine Air Force
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2008, 12:49:31 AM »
What about Israeli made missiles? I know that Argentina and Israel have excellent diplomatic relations. even in the military. So why not use the Derby or the Python series missiles in the Mirage 2000?

Offline Globetrotter

  • Hero of Flight
  • ******
  • Posts: 838
  • Country: ar
  • I'm Thomas (now Globetrotter)
Re: More budget and aircrafts promise for Argentine Air Force
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2008, 02:28:26 AM »
That's a good possibility, but why? I mean, wouldn't we have to change avionics on the Mirage? or why not buy them from the French? Maybe in the whole package it's easier. But that's my opinion  ::)

I think, however, that that's they way to go in case that the F-16 were bought. (AIM-120 thing i explained previously)
"Ad Astra Per Aspera"   (5º Grupo de Caza ≈ A-4AR Fightinghawk)

 ~ MALVINAS ARGENTINAS ~


Offline Globetrotter

  • Hero of Flight
  • ******
  • Posts: 838
  • Country: ar
  • I'm Thomas (now Globetrotter)
Re: More budget and aircrafts promise for Argentine Air Force
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2008, 05:16:52 AM »
Look what someone suggested as an interesting note:

http://209.85.171.104/translate_c?hl=es&sl=es&tl=en&u=http://www.pista18.com.ar/notas/2008/0072china/i_chengdu_j10.htm

I hope it is translated, at least I see it in english at the moment I post it.
"Ad Astra Per Aspera"   (5º Grupo de Caza ≈ A-4AR Fightinghawk)

 ~ MALVINAS ARGENTINAS ~


Offline tigershark

  • News Editor
  • General of Flight
  • *******
  • Posts: 2025
Re: More budget and aircrafts promise for Argentine Air Force
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2008, 05:44:51 PM »
Globetrotter interesting article thanks for posting it and the translation work.   For some reason reason I like the J-10, I can't base it on any facts since little is known or can be confirmed, I just do.   China has come a long way in the last ten years and maybe going with a modern J-10 is better then a Mirage 2000-C that needs tons of upgrades and new systems installed.   It would be difficult for China to break into the South America arms market I think.  Maybe if done in small steps it could happen look how Africa has turn out with China's involvement there nobody thought that possible ten years ago right?

Offline Globetrotter

  • Hero of Flight
  • ******
  • Posts: 838
  • Country: ar
  • I'm Thomas (now Globetrotter)
Re: More budget and aircrafts promise for Argentine Air Force
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2008, 05:11:59 PM »
This is an article that was taken as serious by some fellow posters at an Argentinean forum.

http://209.85.171.104/translate_c?hl=es&sl=es&tl=en&u=http://www.pista18.com.ar/notas/2008/0082cheetah1/index.htm

I hope it sums something up fpr the thread  ;)
"Ad Astra Per Aspera"   (5º Grupo de Caza ≈ A-4AR Fightinghawk)

 ~ MALVINAS ARGENTINAS ~


 



AVIATION TOP 100 - www.avitop.com click to vote for MILAVIA