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Author Topic: Raptors Grounded!  (Read 14869 times)

Offline shawn a

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Raptors Grounded!
« on: May 06, 2011, 08:50:20 AM »
F-22s are grounded now, because of what I heard was a "problem delivering oxygen to the pilot"
This fuels my personal apprehension over our future "one plane air force"--OK, OK "two plane air force"
I wonder if conclusions from the investigation into the Alaska crash is the reason for the grounding.

Offline F-111 C/C

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Re: Raptors Grounded!
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2011, 03:43:43 PM »
I wonder, since a lot of evidence in that crash points to CFIT which could have been due to an oxygen delivery problem I guess. Another 'pro' for pilotless vehicles perhaps?
Wars are won by carrying the 'heavy iron' downtown!

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Re: Raptors Grounded!
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2011, 07:10:31 PM »
Sure, among the many other benefits of not having to accomodate people onboard and not having to deal with other "human factors".

But after all these decades of making sure pilots can breath, you would think oxygen delivery wouldn't be a problem. If they are all grounded, then there's reason to think the problem occured because of a design/manufacturing/maintenance/procedural fault. And those things may just as well occur with hmm, the flight guidance system of a UAV or how about targeting system. They are built/maintained/flown by humans just as well.

So alone, being able to get rid of this system or risk, not a pro for unmanned imho!

Yes, Shawn, there's that risk, especially with today's "commonality" requirements, striving for an ideal standard on every aircraft fleet-wide. Standards and architecture commonalities are great, but it should mean that if you opt for one aircraft, that you don't need to restrict yourself to one option and have alternates. (ahum, F136!)
Maintaining a mixed fleet of aircraft, even mixed inventory of their systems, is expensive and troublesome, which comes risk as well, and I guess it's opting for the lesser of two evils. Uhm, mostly that means the less expensive one in post-Cold War days. But you can also use the economies of scale to have a better support infrastructure, monitoring/diagnostics, etc. So it doesn't take an accident before the problem is found. 
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Offline shawn a

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Re: Raptors Grounded!
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2011, 08:47:29 PM »
Evidently, it's not a "grounding", but a "stand-down", which, according to milspeak, are two different things.
A grounding seems to be mandatory, while the stand-down is more lenient in its restrictions.

Don't you guys read science fiction, haven't you seen Terminator? Unmanned systems are coming to get us!!
An interesting story on "unmanned systems" is "Second Variety" by Philip K. Dick. Oddly enough, written in 1953.

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Re: Raptors Grounded!
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2011, 02:51:14 AM »
Ok, makes sense.

You mean sigh-fi?

 
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Offline shawn a

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Re: Raptors Grounded!
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2011, 04:07:04 AM »
...sigh...

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Re: Raptors Grounded!
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2011, 03:54:23 AM »
Do you know if this has any implications for the Raptor Demo schedule?
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Offline F-111 C/C

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Re: Raptors Grounded!
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2011, 04:55:42 AM »
Grounding IS directly related to the Alaska crash. Excerpt from a Military.com article:

"An investigation into the Raptors’ performance was launched in the wake of a November crash in Alaska. Since January, the jets have been restricted to altitudes of 25,000 feet because of concerns pilots might black out from a lack of oxygen, officials said."

Wars are won by carrying the 'heavy iron' downtown!

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Re: Raptors Grounded!
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2011, 05:59:13 PM »
Shouldn't be a problem for the demo then.
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Offline shawn a

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Re: Raptors Grounded!
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2011, 06:52:58 AM »
Well, it could be a problem for any combat use of the -22, since the altitude capabilities of the Raptor were supposed to impart an extra kinetic range to the "medium" range AMRAAM.
I'd like to see Meteors adapted to the -22 and the -35.
Hell, they buy ours, why can't we buy theirs?

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Re: Raptors Grounded!
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2011, 10:40:59 PM »
"MBDA continues to lobby to also have the design integrated as a core weapon for the Lockheed Martin F-35."

Quote
Hell, they buy ours, why can't we buy theirs?

You can.

Could have had ASRAAM as well.

So I guess, it's like those Airbus tankers you can't buy...?
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Offline shawn a

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Re: Raptors Grounded!
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2011, 10:34:38 AM »
Can't afford 'em, It'd be like buying a Porsche SUV when a simple Humvee would do. ;)
If Meteors will be used on Euro-35s, why wouldn't the software simply be THERE on ALL -35s? :-[ I assume they will fit in the weapons bays. Or am I assuming too much? The Israelis will not want Sidewinders instead of Pythons, will they?
Oops--we're talking about Raptors here, right?
I just hope the Raptor will be cleared for airshows even if we can't use them for combat! ::) (I notice there's no smiley icon for "sarcastic")

 



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