Russia Admits China Illegally Copied Its Fighter

[tigershark]

Russia Admits China Illegally Copied Its Fighter

By wendell minnick
Published: 13 Feb 12:29 EST (17:29 GMT)

BANGALORE, India - After years of denial, a Russian defense official conceded that China had produced its own "fake" version of the Su-27SK fighter jet in violation of intellectual property agreements.

"We are in discussions with China on this issue," said Mikhail Pogosyan, first vice president on program coordination, Russian Aircraft Corp., during a press conference here at the Aero India trade show.
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In 1995, China secured a production license to build 200 Su-27SKs, dubbed J-11A, for $2.5 billion for the Shenyang Aircraft Corp. The deal required the aircraft to be outfitted with Russian avionics, radars and engines. Russia cancelled the arrangement at 95 aircraft in 2006 after it discovered that China was developing an indigenous version, J-11B, with Chinese avionics and systems.

China produced six J-11B fighters for testing, but despite efforts to produce a suitable replacement for the Russian engine, the new fighter was outfitted with the same AL-31F, said Andrei Chang, a China military specialist at the Kanwa Defense Center. One J-11A was outfitted with the indigenously-built WS10A Tai Hang turbofan engine, but the J-11Bs are still using Russian AL-31Fs due to technical difficulties, Chang said.

Pogosyan and Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov traveled to Beijing in December to attend the 13th session of a Chinese-Russian joint commission on military and technical cooperation and apply pressure to Chinese officials. Ultimately, China agreed to protect intellectual property rights and stop illegally copying Russian military equipment.

"I think this was a big step to make this issue more transparent and more precise in our future discussions," said Pogosyan, who also serves as the general director of Sukhoi.

Russia fears that China would mass-produce cheaper export versions of the Su-27 for the international market, and China feared that Russia would cancel future orders for advanced arms, such as the Su-33 combat jet for China's aircraft carrier program, Chang said. Chinese violations of the end-user agreement would be particularly upsetting to Russia's long-time strategic partner India, if Pakistan buys the Chinese-built Su-27 version.

However, Pogosyan downplayed the quality of the Chinese effort, saying a copy of a copy would not be a good aircraft.

"If we speak about the copy of the airplanes, I think that in this case, the original will always be better than a slightly modified copy," he said. "The original made by the designer who developed the product is always better, and it is a better start for a new program with the original designer and developer than making a fake copy."

He said buying copies makes it difficult to overcome problems occurring during the lifetime of the aircraft, while the original developer knows from experience how to deal with these issues.

Chang does not believe China will honor the intellectual property agreement, or any agreement with Russia, and will continue to develop the J-11B as a totally indigenous aircraft. However, China will move cautiously until it secures deals for the Su-33 carrier-based fighter. China is beginning to build its first aircraft carrier and needs Russian technology and experience, Chang said.

Source
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3947599&c=ASI&s=AIR

[F-111 C/C]

Talk about the Pot calling the Kettle Black! Russia has been copying stuff from the West since the Wright Brothers!!!

[shawn a]

I don't think the Russians ever signed an agreement saying they wouldn't copy western stuff. If the Chinese signed such an agreement with Russia over the SU-27, and then violated it, it should be taken as a wake-up call to anyone doing business in China that there is a very fundamental lack of honesty and integrity present in their mindset. Sort of an "Ends Justify the Means" mentality. Not good.
Shawn A.

[F-111 C/C]

I think it's only a violation if they build the aircraft to SELL as export. They have licensing to build the aircraft for themselves with agreements in using Russian-sourced engines and avionics. This is where they got a little too creative using their own stuff.

[shawn a]

So, basically, I haven't violated any copyright laws when I've copied Videodiscs to give away? I don't sell them, so it's Ok, even though the originals say copying is illegal?
Does this mean I can disarm the claymores in my driveway?



Just kidding.
I still think this means China should not be trusted.

[F-111 C/C]

I agree. I think that's exactly what China's doing - taking advantage of Russia. I wouldn't trust them either. I think China's J-10 looks too similar to the F-16.

[tigershark]

F-111 C/C  remember Pakistan help them with the JF-17 program and I'm sure a lot of F-16 information was brought to the table via Pakistan.

The Israeli Lavi program I'm sure help to even know if was a 80s based design and the only the A/B Vipers were beginning to go operational on a large scale I'm sure the program help.  China used a lot of Russian help over years and sure the J-17/FC-1 and J-10 are more Russian on the insides then anything else.

When China really gets the engines problems worked out and begin using their own across the board in every platform that's when China becomes more dangerous.  The stolen South African missiles and Russian copied radar's can only go so far.  Taking these copies in and bring them to the next level is the key nobody going to match their production levels. 

China's building up a blue water navy which goes un-notice by most and will be fielding some powerful Frigates and heavy Destroyers in the near future.  They also added more new nuke Boats/subs to fleet then Russia has in the last eight years.    Second largest importer of oil in the world now China is only the US imports more.

[Webmaster]

The Lavi link itself is being questioned by some (see IAPR 22 for those who have it), but Israeli help with the J-10 is unofficially confirmed by at least one industry source, but I think it was in the late 1990s close to when they had flown the initial prototype.

The solution to the engine problems is buying more AL-31FNs at the moment.