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Author Topic: Sukhoi signs record $2.5 bln deal with Russian defense ministry  (Read 13064 times)

Offline SukhoiLover

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Re: Sukhoi signs record $2.5 bln deal with Russian defense ministry
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2009, 03:03:22 PM »
I´m not pro-Russia. But i am pro-Sukhoi.

Like Viggen said Russia is not a threat, not because their military is somewhat rusty these day, but because Russia is not willingto fight anyone right now.

In fact, with Obama leading the USA right now, instead of the dumm head Bush, i truly believe the relations between the USA and Russia will improve a lot which in other words mean that a war between the USA and Russian is out of question.

The Cold War is gone, terrorists are the main threat now, and to fight terrorist words don´t work, you need, guns, big guns, and thats why Russia has the right to rearm herself, not to attack but to deend herself from any potential thread.


And finally aviator, this isn´t just an aviation forum, this is a MILITARY Aviation forum, so you should get used to the idea of seeing people here suporting their own favourite fighters. Commercial aviation comes in 2nd place.

I love the Sukhois, mainly the Flankers.
Gripen loves the Gripen.
Viggen loves the Viggen.
Webby loves the Tornado.
Tigershark loved the F-20
F-111 loves the F-111
Raptor loves the F-22
Valkyrian loves Valkyrie

I think you got my point.
 
http://sukhoitribute.blogspot.com/

English version: http://sukhoitributeenglish.blogspot.com/


Pavel be proud of your legacy!!!!

Offline AVIATOR

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Re: Sukhoi signs record $2.5 bln deal with Russian defense ministry
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2009, 03:31:18 PM »
Not I don't get any point except the actual political situation that is being fuelled in our region by Russia.
Perhaps you'd like to read this article in Australian Air Power and see the trouble brewing for the West again and the reason for another arms race. The trouble is cheap Sukhoi fighter planes that our old cold war enemy is throwing around everywhere.
Of course Russia will never go to war with the West, but there are going to be future minor wars soon because of their aircraft sales to unstable regimes in the developing countries. They can just sit back and be the gun runners to others as they have been since 1945.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker.html

Oh and Suk, I love the Spitfire.


Offline F-111 C/C

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Re: Sukhoi signs record $2.5 bln deal with Russian defense ministry
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2009, 04:05:55 PM »
Is the gun manufacturer to blame when someone uses their weapon in a crime?
Wars are won by carrying the 'heavy iron' downtown!

Offline SukhoiLover

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Re: Sukhoi signs record $2.5 bln deal with Russian defense ministry
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2009, 04:13:11 PM »
F-111, you have taken the words out o my mouth again.

If Australia commited a crime against some country, could you blame the USA for giving Australia their F-18´s?

The USA sold F-14´s to Iran some years ago, can you blame the USA if the Iranians start using them to bomb people?

I guess not.

They just sold the weapons, what the other countries do or don´t do is not their problem, they don´t tell them "Now go and bomb some houses".
http://sukhoitribute.blogspot.com/

English version: http://sukhoitributeenglish.blogspot.com/


Pavel be proud of your legacy!!!!

Offline Webmaster

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Re: Sukhoi signs record $2.5 bln deal with Russian defense ministry
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2009, 05:38:47 PM »
Please, I haven't seen any Russian sale yet which could be considered anything more than updating a country's right to defend itself. Yes, with updated more capable technology, of course, when the West is supplying modern tech to all their neighbours. I don't see it as an arms race, then they should get more instead of less aircraft than their neighbours. It's weapons trade, what are you going to do about it?

There's India with a huge Russian fleet, but you don't seem too worried about India?

And if supplying a handful of Su-35s to non-aligned countries makes the US worried and invest more on its own capability, in the end that helps them to face their own jets they've mistakenly supplied to countries around the world as well.

I'm not quite sure what you want Aviator. Deny a country the right to develop its own weapons and update its air force (Russia), or that you have a problem with them going to other countries as exports, or are seriously worried about Australia getting attacked (Malaysia? hahaha, I'd be more worried about China, but the easy solution to that is to just keep importing their goods), or you just have a problem with Muslims and (former) Communists?

Anyway, the thing is...

We can't control this. So let's view them on the basis of their technology and performance achievement. The Flanker is an amazing aerodynamic design, it's great to see this latest offering which addresses many of its shortfalls. Russia's R&D is back on track and delivering modern technology, you can say it's about time, you can say it isn't as good as Western tech, or that it is copied, doesn't matter... they are important achievements for the country's industry, which will let it compete with Western tech, and eventually find its way onto the civvie market as well, driving global competition and the need for innovation.


I had wished this topic could have focused on the RuAF, Sukhoi and the planes mentioned. That's why I initially deleted your reply Aviator, but you insisted, now look the mess we're in. Discussing the ethics of admiring weapons, the politics of arms trade and Red Dawn scenarios.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 05:41:48 PM by Webmaster »
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Niels Hillebrand
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Offline SukhoiLover

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Re: Sukhoi signs record $2.5 bln deal with Russian defense ministry
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2009, 06:36:30 PM »
I agree with you Webby, i´ll try to get back on track and i think the rest of us will do the same.

Webby, this news means you have to update the Su-35 section since now it has already been sold to a country :) :)
http://sukhoitribute.blogspot.com/

English version: http://sukhoitributeenglish.blogspot.com/


Pavel be proud of your legacy!!!!

Offline SukhoiLover

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Re: Sukhoi signs record $2.5 bln deal with Russian defense ministry
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2009, 06:53:17 PM »
By the way, some specialists estimated the cost of a single Su-35 at around 65 million US dollars.

Since it incorporates ram materials, advanced engines, composite materials on the structure, advanced ols, advanced avionics and one of the most powerful radars ever, it will cerntainly cost more than the typical 30-40 million of other models.

But after seeing the price of this deal, how much do you guys think it really costs?
http://sukhoitribute.blogspot.com/

English version: http://sukhoitributeenglish.blogspot.com/


Pavel be proud of your legacy!!!!

Offline Webmaster

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Re: Sukhoi signs record $2.5 bln deal with Russian defense ministry
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2009, 07:50:14 PM »
Putin saved it, if you ask me. If he would have been a navy or army guy, the RuAF would never have gotten this 'stop-gap' fighter.

Yes, I know I have to update my work. But compared to the majority of pages of the internet it isn't too bad, it's just not completely up-to-date.

You want production cost per unit produced or program cost per unit or commercial price?

Let me think about it... my initial thought is that I will arrive at a higher number though than 65 per unit for the typical '24 aircraft' order most countries look for. Another initial thought is that RuAF cost for each unit produced is 40-45 million for this initial run... argh, too little info though. But let me dig into it...

« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 07:58:07 PM by Webmaster »
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Niels Hillebrand
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Offline SukhoiLover

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Re: Sukhoi signs record $2.5 bln deal with Russian defense ministry
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2009, 08:50:11 PM »
"Yes, I know I have to update my work. But compared to the majority of pages of the internet it isn't too bad, it's just not completely up-to-date."

I´m not complaining, this happens to be one of the most complete sites i ever found, thats why it is my favourite.

I mean commercial price per unit. Iniatialy it was thought to be 65 millions per aircraft.

http://sukhoitribute.blogspot.com/

English version: http://sukhoitributeenglish.blogspot.com/


Pavel be proud of your legacy!!!!

Offline AVIATOR

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Re: Sukhoi signs record $2.5 bln deal with Russian defense ministry
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2009, 01:01:21 AM »

I had wished this topic could have focused on the RuAF, Sukhoi and the planes mentioned. That's why I initially deleted your reply Aviator, but you insisted, now look the mess we're in. Discussing the ethics of admiring weapons, the politics of arms trade and Red Dawn scenarios.

Er you out of anyone on here should know what a forum is Niels since it's your forum. It's to discuss anything to do with the subject of the forum. In this case aircraft and in this thread aircraft of war and their potential to change political situations.
I objected to my valid post being deleted, as it is very pertinent to the discussion.
What mess are we in? This has been very informative.
You ask what I want. I want the right as a member to give an opposing view and not have it deleted.
I wanted to be able to say that Sukhoi fighter planes aren't just pretty flying things painted in lovely colours to be perved upon by dreamers. They are weapons and their main role is to kill people.

Malaysia will never be a threat to Australia and we aren't even worried about the most populous Islamic nation in the world next to us. We sure aren't worried about India who is part of the sub continent.
We are worried that the destabilizing effects advanced fighter planes will have among these nations with each other in our region. These nations are controlled by very dubious regimes.
No one wants to deny the advancement of developing countries and Australia is even helping them by training pilots here, but arming them with hundreds of Sukhoi top fighters is a receipt for trouble.
I reject completely that  Sukhoi Aviation should just be seen commercially as just another supplier like Lockheed Martin or General Dynamics. This is still a them and us scenario. Nothing has changed.

I will finish by saying that this topic was triggered by my disappointment that some young people in the West seem to have lost their patriotism. This will eventually bring the demise of our military superiority and the President of the United States himself is doing all he can to help that along.


Offline SukhoiLover

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Re: Sukhoi signs record $2.5 bln deal with Russian defense ministry
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2009, 02:04:25 AM »
Just because some people prefer foreign planes this doesn´t mean they are not patriotic.

My case for example, i love Sukhoi and their planes but i never said i loved Russia or any other country.

And to be honest with you, right now i don´t fell very patriotic. What does my country have to make me feel that way?

When we say Portugal the first thing that comes to peoples mind is Cristiano Ronaldo.
Instead of being known for something important like the discovery of some disease, we are know because of a guy who makes his living out of kicking a f*cking ball.
Our politicians are all corrupt. They get their, put some money in the pocket and then leave.
Our economists say that in a 10 year period we will be bankrupt.
Should i feel proud about this shitt* country? NO

In fact, i use to say that more than Portuguese i´m an AZOREAN, because the politicians and people here in the azores make more for each other than the rest of the country.

But lets stop with all this off-topic conversation, what i´m interested now is to know the price tag of a single Su-35BM, the rest is history, to the he*l with it.
http://sukhoitribute.blogspot.com/

English version: http://sukhoitributeenglish.blogspot.com/


Pavel be proud of your legacy!!!!

 



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