MILAVIA Forum
Military Aviation => Military Aviation News => Topic started by: SukhoiLover on August 18, 2009, 10:18:06 PM
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"MOSCOW, August 18 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's Defense Ministry and the Sukhoi aircraft maker signed on Tuesday a 80 billion ruble ($2.5 billion) contract, the Russian prime minister said.
Under the contract signed at the MAKS-2009 air show at Zhukovsky outside Moscow, the Russian Air Force will buy 48 Su-35S, 12 Su-27SM and four Su-30M2 fighter jets.
Vladimir Putin said the contract "sets a record in modern Russian history," adding that aircraft deliveries were to be completed by 2015.
He also said the Russian government would provide an additional $100 million to Sukhoi's capital from the federal budget.
The head of Vnesheconombank (VEB), Vladimir Dmitriyev, said the national development bank would grant Sukhoi a 3.5 billion-ruble ($109 million) loan to start production of Su-35 jets.
The Su-35 fighter, powered by two 117S engines with thrust vectoring, combines high maneuverability and the capability to effectively engage several targets simultaneously.
It is equipped with a 30-mm cannon with 150 rounds, and can carry up to eight metric tons of combat payload on 12 external mounts.
Russia's Air Force commander, Col. Gen. Alexander Zelin, said in July that up to three air regiments would be equipped with Su-35 fighters in the future.
Russia also plans to export at least 160 Su-35 fighters to several countries including India, Malaysia and Algeria."
Guys, i have to be honest, right now my heart is beating at 200 BPM and i´m just full of the most extreme joy.
This news is the confirmation that the Su-35BM, my favorite plane, won´t be just another failed project like the Su-37.
To Webby: Once again, you were absolutely right, its the Su-27SM and not the Su-27M, the other news had a typo.
P.S: I would love to hear from tigershark right now, we had several discussion about the Su-35BM and its future, if he was here he would probably be congratulating me for being right, i really miss him now :( :(
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So the enemy are arming again. You living in Portugal should have a ringside seat if these aircraft are ever used for their true purpose. ie to shoot down NATO aircraft and kill our pilots.
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Someone remind Aviator that the Cold War is over.
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Nothing is over. Russia is busy arming any nation that isn't in the Western Alliances including us down here in the Anzus pact. Even we have an interim order for F-18 Super Hornets whilst we are waiting for our F-35s.
They aren't to fight New Zealand. They are to counter Malaysia's Russian built planes. Without cheap Russian aircraft arming all these developing or third world countries, the European Union, United States or Australia would not have to be re arming at all. We certainly don't need fighter planes for anti terrorism operations.
They are to counter the same opposition we have had since 1945. Russia.
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We certainly don't need fighter planes for anti terrorism operations.
Tell that to the troops that are currently fighting the taliban in Afganistan. I dare you? :)
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Someone remind Aviator that the Cold War is over.
I would say the same thing.
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OK, seeing how Australia has been there from day one, I will. Who do I tell? Where is the Taliban Air Force?
You want to explain this. If there were any opposition aircraft to the Allies effort in Afghanistan they would have "made in Russia" printed on them and with a Sukhoi badge attached.
I think it's about time someone on here said that jet fighters are weapons of war. They aren't pretty things to be perved on by enthusiasts or forum dreamers. This is an aviation forum. Realize that your 'ideal' might be shooting at your family if things hot up.
Lets start a land mine forum where we can have our favourite land mines talked about. They tell me that the Fiat Company of Italy is the biggest land mine manufacturer in the world. Anyone like Fiats?
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Aviator, you seam to forget that most aircraft today are multirole. Their purpouse is to assist groundtroops, like dropping bombs or strafe runs on the enemy. An air force have three main objectives, air defence, groundsupport and Recce.
Stop pretending that the russians are the enemy. No matter how good aircraft they have, it also comes down to pilot training. This is where the western countries leave them in their wake. :)
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Yeah and the opposition nations to the Allies and NATO are being armed with your multi role aircraft.
Dream on.
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Yeah and the opposition nations to the Allies and NATO are being armed with your multi role aircraft.
Dream on.
LOL! You really have no idea of what the hell you are talking about. Wonder who is living in a dreamworld. You should stop reading aviation magazines from the early 80´s.
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Tomorrow we are going to talk about Sweden and the consequences of rampant inflation from going it alone to arm against the Warsaw Pact during and since the cold war and not joining NATO. The crippling debt that your hero Russia put your country in. More stuff I know nothing about.
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Tomorrow we are going to talk about Sweden and the consequences of rampant inflation from going it alone to arm against the Warsaw Pact during and since the cold war and not joining NATO. The crippling debt that your hero Russia put your country in. More stuff I know nothing about.
1. Now you are trying to turn the topic from aviation to politics, and involve my country in your little fantasy world.
2. Sweden is doing ok finacially and was even doing better during the cold war era then today.
3. Sweden had a secret agrement with NATO in case the Russians and warsaw pact would become hostile. Sweden was going to get NATO support, using Norway as base of operations.
4. Russia is not my "hero". Have never said that in any of my posts. I´ve done my time in the air force , training against the "Russian threat". And honestly, i dont see them as a threat today.
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I´m not pro-Russia. But i am pro-Sukhoi.
Like Viggen said Russia is not a threat, not because their military is somewhat rusty these day, but because Russia is not willingto fight anyone right now.
In fact, with Obama leading the USA right now, instead of the dumm head Bush, i truly believe the relations between the USA and Russia will improve a lot which in other words mean that a war between the USA and Russian is out of question.
The Cold War is gone, terrorists are the main threat now, and to fight terrorist words don´t work, you need, guns, big guns, and thats why Russia has the right to rearm herself, not to attack but to deend herself from any potential thread.
And finally aviator, this isn´t just an aviation forum, this is a MILITARY Aviation forum, so you should get used to the idea of seeing people here suporting their own favourite fighters. Commercial aviation comes in 2nd place.
I love the Sukhois, mainly the Flankers.
Gripen loves the Gripen.
Viggen loves the Viggen.
Webby loves the Tornado.
Tigershark loved the F-20
F-111 loves the F-111
Raptor loves the F-22
Valkyrian loves Valkyrie
I think you got my point.
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Not I don't get any point except the actual political situation that is being fuelled in our region by Russia.
Perhaps you'd like to read this article in Australian Air Power and see the trouble brewing for the West again and the reason for another arms race. The trouble is cheap Sukhoi fighter planes that our old cold war enemy is throwing around everywhere.
Of course Russia will never go to war with the West, but there are going to be future minor wars soon because of their aircraft sales to unstable regimes in the developing countries. They can just sit back and be the gun runners to others as they have been since 1945.
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker.html
Oh and Suk, I love the Spitfire.
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Is the gun manufacturer to blame when someone uses their weapon in a crime?
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F-111, you have taken the words out o my mouth again.
If Australia commited a crime against some country, could you blame the USA for giving Australia their F-18´s?
The USA sold F-14´s to Iran some years ago, can you blame the USA if the Iranians start using them to bomb people?
I guess not.
They just sold the weapons, what the other countries do or don´t do is not their problem, they don´t tell them "Now go and bomb some houses".
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Please, I haven't seen any Russian sale yet which could be considered anything more than updating a country's right to defend itself. Yes, with updated more capable technology, of course, when the West is supplying modern tech to all their neighbours. I don't see it as an arms race, then they should get more instead of less aircraft than their neighbours. It's weapons trade, what are you going to do about it?
There's India with a huge Russian fleet, but you don't seem too worried about India?
And if supplying a handful of Su-35s to non-aligned countries makes the US worried and invest more on its own capability, in the end that helps them to face their own jets they've mistakenly supplied to countries around the world as well.
I'm not quite sure what you want Aviator. Deny a country the right to develop its own weapons and update its air force (Russia), or that you have a problem with them going to other countries as exports, or are seriously worried about Australia getting attacked (Malaysia? hahaha, I'd be more worried about China, but the easy solution to that is to just keep importing their goods), or you just have a problem with Muslims and (former) Communists?
Anyway, the thing is...
We can't control this. So let's view them on the basis of their technology and performance achievement. The Flanker is an amazing aerodynamic design, it's great to see this latest offering which addresses many of its shortfalls. Russia's R&D is back on track and delivering modern technology, you can say it's about time, you can say it isn't as good as Western tech, or that it is copied, doesn't matter... they are important achievements for the country's industry, which will let it compete with Western tech, and eventually find its way onto the civvie market as well, driving global competition and the need for innovation.
I had wished this topic could have focused on the RuAF, Sukhoi and the planes mentioned. That's why I initially deleted your reply Aviator, but you insisted, now look the mess we're in. Discussing the ethics of admiring weapons, the politics of arms trade and Red Dawn scenarios.
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I agree with you Webby, i´ll try to get back on track and i think the rest of us will do the same.
Webby, this news means you have to update the Su-35 section since now it has already been sold to a country :) :)
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By the way, some specialists estimated the cost of a single Su-35 at around 65 million US dollars.
Since it incorporates ram materials, advanced engines, composite materials on the structure, advanced ols, advanced avionics and one of the most powerful radars ever, it will cerntainly cost more than the typical 30-40 million of other models.
But after seeing the price of this deal, how much do you guys think it really costs?
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Putin saved it, if you ask me. If he would have been a navy or army guy, the RuAF would never have gotten this 'stop-gap' fighter.
Yes, I know I have to update my work. But compared to the majority of pages of the internet it isn't too bad, it's just not completely up-to-date.
You want production cost per unit produced or program cost per unit or commercial price?
Let me think about it... my initial thought is that I will arrive at a higher number though than 65 per unit for the typical '24 aircraft' order most countries look for. Another initial thought is that RuAF cost for each unit produced is 40-45 million for this initial run... argh, too little info though. But let me dig into it...
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"Yes, I know I have to update my work. But compared to the majority of pages of the internet it isn't too bad, it's just not completely up-to-date."
I´m not complaining, this happens to be one of the most complete sites i ever found, thats why it is my favourite.
I mean commercial price per unit. Iniatialy it was thought to be 65 millions per aircraft.
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I had wished this topic could have focused on the RuAF, Sukhoi and the planes mentioned. That's why I initially deleted your reply Aviator, but you insisted, now look the mess we're in. Discussing the ethics of admiring weapons, the politics of arms trade and Red Dawn scenarios.
Er you out of anyone on here should know what a forum is Niels since it's your forum. It's to discuss anything to do with the subject of the forum. In this case aircraft and in this thread aircraft of war and their potential to change political situations.
I objected to my valid post being deleted, as it is very pertinent to the discussion.
What mess are we in? This has been very informative.
You ask what I want. I want the right as a member to give an opposing view and not have it deleted.
I wanted to be able to say that Sukhoi fighter planes aren't just pretty flying things painted in lovely colours to be perved upon by dreamers. They are weapons and their main role is to kill people.
Malaysia will never be a threat to Australia and we aren't even worried about the most populous Islamic nation in the world next to us. We sure aren't worried about India who is part of the sub continent.
We are worried that the destabilizing effects advanced fighter planes will have among these nations with each other in our region. These nations are controlled by very dubious regimes.
No one wants to deny the advancement of developing countries and Australia is even helping them by training pilots here, but arming them with hundreds of Sukhoi top fighters is a receipt for trouble.
I reject completely that Sukhoi Aviation should just be seen commercially as just another supplier like Lockheed Martin or General Dynamics. This is still a them and us scenario. Nothing has changed.
I will finish by saying that this topic was triggered by my disappointment that some young people in the West seem to have lost their patriotism. This will eventually bring the demise of our military superiority and the President of the United States himself is doing all he can to help that along.
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Just because some people prefer foreign planes this doesn´t mean they are not patriotic.
My case for example, i love Sukhoi and their planes but i never said i loved Russia or any other country.
And to be honest with you, right now i don´t fell very patriotic. What does my country have to make me feel that way?
When we say Portugal the first thing that comes to peoples mind is Cristiano Ronaldo.
Instead of being known for something important like the discovery of some disease, we are know because of a guy who makes his living out of kicking a f*cking ball.
Our politicians are all corrupt. They get their, put some money in the pocket and then leave.
Our economists say that in a 10 year period we will be bankrupt.
Should i feel proud about this shitt* country? NO
In fact, i use to say that more than Portuguese i´m an AZOREAN, because the politicians and people here in the azores make more for each other than the rest of the country.
But lets stop with all this off-topic conversation, what i´m interested now is to know the price tag of a single Su-35BM, the rest is history, to the he*l with it.