US Navy jet violates Venezuelan airspace: US officials

[tigershark]

US Navy jet violates Venezuelan airspace: US officials
3 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AFP) — A US Navy surveillance jet lost its way during a counter-drug mission and strayed into Venezuelan airspace, US officials said Monday following a vehement Venezuelan protest.

Venezuelan Defense Minister Gustavo Rangel called the overflight "a deliberate action" and "another link in a chain of provocations."

Rangel said the Venezuelan air defense system tracked the S-3 Viking over the Venezuelan island of La Orchila on Saturday at 8:40 pm (0010 GMT Sunday).

The island is a military base and a presidential retreat that lies in the Caribbean just north of the Venezuelan mainland.

The United States, responding hours later, portrayed the incident as an inadvertent incursion into Venezuelan airspace.

"A US S-3 aircraft conducting counter-drugs operations lost navigational situational awareness causing it to fly into Venezuelan airspace off the mainland coast," the Joint Interagency Task Force South said in a statement.

The aircraft was assigned to the military-led task force, which directs US counter-drug operations in the Caribbean from its headquarters in Key West, Florida.

Commander Jeffrey Gordon, a Pentagon spokesman, said the S-3 aircrew was queried by Venezuelan air traffic control at Maiquetia after experiencing "intermittent navigational problems" while on a mission originating in Curacao.

The US Air Force operates a base for US counter-drug operations in Curacao, one of the Netherlands Antilles near Venezuela.

"Our crew promptly responded with information including the fact that they were a US Navy aircraft, gave their call sign, that they were flying in international airspace on a mission originating in Curacao, and that a navigational error had occurred," Gordon said.

He said a language barrier apparently delayed the initial conversation between the US crew and the Venezuelans, but the exchange lasted about three minutes.

"The conversation was polite and professional," he said.

S-3 Vikings were originally designed as an anti-submarine warfare aircraft, but are now used mostly for maritime surveillance and as an air refueling plane.

However, some have been modified for electronic warfare and intelligence gathering.

The Venezuelan defense minister said the S-3 "practically flew over" two Venezuelan islands before turning back and heading towards the Netherlands Antilles, small islands just off Venezuela's northern coast.

"We ordered the airplane to identify itself," Rangel said at a press conference in Caracas. "We have recorded proof of the conversation between ground control in Venezuela and the aircraft pilot."

"He said he was not aware that he was over Venezuelan territory," said Rangel, adding, "This was a deliberate action. It is another link in the chain of provocations."

Venezuelan Foreign Minister Nicolas Maduro described the incident as an "illegal overflight."

"We are first going to listen to the explanations from the United States, and starting from there will take the necessary actions so this does not happen again," Maduro said.

The incident comes amid tensions between Venezuela and the United States and its ally Colombia, which borders Venezuela.

Interpol confirmed on Thursday the authenticity of 38,000 computer files seized from Marxist Colombian guerrillas that Bogota says shows links between the rebels and the leftist governments of Venezuela and Ecuador.

Colombian forces seized the files March 1 in a cross-border raid on a Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) camp inside Ecuador.

The Venezuelan foreign minister said he also spoke Monday with his Colombian counterpart Fernando Araujo about an alleged incursion into Venezuelan territory by a 60-man Colombian unit.

Colombia denies the incident -- although Venezuela says it has pictures to prove it -- and both sides on Monday agreed to activate diplomatic mechanisms to find out what happened, Maduro said.

source
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hYmCiTyMErdhRE4Jfg0sgI2ahs_A

[Globetrotter]

They could have scrambled their Sukhois... just like the Brittish did with the Soviet bombers, nothing too agressive, just to show a little bit off

Out of any jokes, I hope it is just an incident, otherwise Chavez might be too "picky" about it and become mad 

[SAS73]

Yeah I agree, the venezuelans are more whiping here that make a show of force. A couple of Su-30 will be enough to show a force display to the US Navy pilots.

[tigershark]

You guys are over looking the fact that they may not be trained on using air to air missiles yet.  Most likely fighters weren't scramble for a reasons too much 'show of force" over a sub-hunter or non threat might work against them and do you really think there weren't fighters or other assets in the area for support?  Do you really think this was a accident?  I think by Venezuela not launching fighters or over reacting they show less of they resources to the many eyes watching them from every direction. 

I'm more interested in why Chavez did nothing about the 60 Colombian troops in Venezuela? If it happen.  That doesn't make sense he should have been ranting in the press and sending his poor troops to the border again for nothing.   

[SukhoiLover]

You guys are over looking the fact that they may not be trained on using air to air missiles yet.  Most likely fighters weren't scramble for a reasons too much 'show of force" over a sub-hunter or non threat might work against them and do you really think there weren't fighters or other assets in the area for support?  Do you really think this was a accident?  I think by Venezuela not launching fighters or over reacting they show less of they resources to the many eyes watching them from every direction. 

I'm more interested in why Chavez did nothing about the 60 Colombian troops in Venezuela? If it happen.  That doesn't make sense he should have been ranting in the press and sending his poor troops to the border again for nothing.  

Either way it would be nice to see a pair of Su-30´s escorting that S-3.
Either way i agree with you in what comes to training, Venezuelan pilots shouldn´t be ready yet to use air-to-air missiles or even to use the aircraft, its very likely they are still getting used to the aircraft and how to operate all the systems on it.

Either way i prefer to believe this was just an incident.

[tigershark]

It's the end part of there third year of training so flying the Flankers shouldn't be a problem or one would hope so at least.  I don't think it was a accident but it's just the way I think.  It was better that the Flankers weren't used because locking up a American naval aircraft with a targeting radar would most likely be a bad thing for Venezuela so things turn out ok.   Nobody's at war the situation was handle in the correct way.

[Globetrotter]

well, the aircrfat was in venezuelan air, so why would it be bad? even more if it wasn't an accident.

I don't even say lock on it, but escort him as US and UK fighters did with Bears.

[SAS73]

well, the aircrfat was in venezuelan air, so why would it be bad? even more if it wasn't an accident.

I don't even say lock on it, but escort him as US and UK fighters did with Bears.

Yeah I agree, I am wonder what was the expression of the Russian crew at the moment that the UK Typhoones appear. What will be the expression of the US S-3 Viking when the Su-30 from the FAV coming to escort out from venezuelan air space

[tigershark]

Hey guys

Globetrotter
well, the aircraft was in Venezuelan air, so why would it be bad?

Locking up the S-3 Viking with a targeting radar would be bordering on hostile and could easily be taken as threat. Since the two countries aren't at war and the S-3 Viking doesn't pose a threat or is threatening, I don't think it would be a normal thing.  The aircraft would have to be closer to the mainland or pose some sort of a threat before taking it to the next level.  I think the situation was handle correctly.  A Bear is different there's a 'Cold War" history between the US & USSR (old term) plus the Bear is a known bomber and capable of carrying nukes, cruise missiles, anti-ship missiles, bombs, etc.   One lone S-3 Viking doesn't pose the same threat as a Bear does in a sense but is capable of carrying weapons.

SAS73
I would like to think the S-3 Viking might have been warned if fighters took off but I'm sure a Flanker could run down a S-3 Viking if it wanted to.  I would like to think some sort of support was in the area if things got nasty.  Remember it doesn't have to be a aircraft either flying toward a USN warship would give SAM coverage Standard 2 or 3 are first rate anti-air missiles and would make most fighter turn away.  I just don't think it was a accident and done to test Venezuela's response.   

I didn't really pay much attention to this poster in this other forum but he mentioned Venezuela should deploy Flankers and former American F-16s to Cuba.  Talk about a bad idea.   

[MKopack]

I agree. No matter the S-3's mission targeting an unarmed (or at least with no air-to-air weaponry) aircraft could be seen as a threat. Intercepting and escorting the aircraft out of the area on the other hand is a standard procedure and there are protocols in place to insure that is done with the safety of all of those involved.

The S-3 would know immediately if intercepting aircraft were airborne - or were even preparing to become airborne. And yes, depending on where the intercepting aircraft were launched from, they could potentially have 'run down' the Viking, but almost certianly not before it was once again in international airspace (the aircraft reportedly overflew a small island.) Then an intercept itself could be considered a hostile, or at least a questionable act. There is also at least the possibility that if the Viking was intercepted in international airspace the intercepting aircraft - be they Flankers or old creaky Vipers - could have found themselves outgunned and overmatched.

If this was simply the case of a Navy Viking mistakenly straying over the island, no harm done - it happens every day, all over the world. If, as many here seem to be insinuating, this was not quite as accidental as it has been explained, there is little doubt that the S-3 would have been supported by other assets.

Mike

[WRCKid]

Both nonpilot and MKopack explained it very eloquently... I agree an intercept could potentially be seen as an act of hostility in other peoples eyes...

[iluveagles]

I agree, there is no way that was an accident, we like to do stuff like that, exercise a bit of control over the world..........since we are the only real superpower there is.............

Some how I think locking on to a US Military aircraft, could easily be seen as a hostile act/an act of war. Obviously, tracking radar would could only be considered hostile and that would be extreme, but targeting and acquisition could be an act of war.........easily...........

The Venezuelan's can't do anything, they will complain all they want, but it doesn't matter............they know they can't do anything to us.............