MILAVIA Forum
Historic Aviation => Warbirds => Topic started by: bazooka on April 17, 2005, 03:11:20 AM
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Hello everyone, I am in a American Military History class at my university and we recently covered aviation in the military. A question from one of the students was "Which plane was the best?" Our professor, being an ex-army officer, said that to answer that question would take too much time away from our lectures. Instead we were all invited to see if we could find out which plane might be considered the best. Some planes were thrown out onto the floor as to which one might take the title, but no answer was found. I thought posting this question on this forum would be a great way to get an idea of what other aviation lovers think and why? Of course the list I presented is only a very small fraction of all the great planes through out history. If anyone else has a plane they would like to include,that is not in the list, please do mention it. Or if they want, can start another poll with diferent options.
thank you all for your time :)
P.S. I know some of the options above are planes that are post World War 2, but I thought I include a few modern planes for the poll. Hope no one minds too much :-[
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Hello Bazooka,
In my opinion is the P-51 Mustang the best of the rest.
Its magnificant engine sound is one of them........ :P
No, to be honest. It had the best range to guide bombers into military Germany, and could still make a dogfight.
It had the speed and the firepower, so in my opinion this is the best plane.
However not my favorit at all, but to be realistic is the F-15 also very close.
But to get sentimental....... ::) ;).......in my opinion is the F-14 Tomcat the best they ever made.
"the world famous and most beautifull long-range fighter ever produced, the F-14 Tomcat. The Tomcat has a superb performance, excellent manoeuvrability and a long-range weapon system. It can be launched from a carrier during day or night, whatever the weather condition is, it can attack multiple targets on an unparalleled distance, and has a timeless and beautiful body. "
Best Regards, Ramon.
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These questions are always hard, since it all depends which criteria are the most important once. The aircraft can be judged on:
- combat record
- number produced
- number of export customers
- technical specifications like speed
- technology advance
- aerodynamics
- and many more
In the end, it often comes down to which aircraft your personal favorite is. Even when comparing aircraft from the same generation, it is difficult to say which one is the best. When doing these polls, it is probably better to make categories for each type of aircraft (fighter, bomber, transport, etc.) and the generation or a certain time in history (e.g. ww2).
In your list, the F-22 is the best performing fighter aircraft, because it has the latest developments and weapons. However the others all played their significant part in history and today already, where the F-22 still has to prove itself.
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How tough is this?!... :o
To actually chose the best...not just the most influential.
I guess that the P-51 has had the greatest single impact of any of the ones on offer and the F-22 SHOULD be better than anything else out there, but this is all so subjective, I couldn't bring myself to vote for a soul-less, untried untested machine like that but in the same breath and old war-horse P-51 is just too dated...AAAAGH! what a cjoce!... :-\ :-\
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I think its the F-15 Eagle, because he already proved himself and in his combat record he won all air to air battles.
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Yes, but it never faced a Su-27... did it? And if it would be up against the opposition that the P-51 or Spitfire faced, the record would without doubt look different. That said, the F-15 is still one of the greatest fighters ever built.
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I voted for Spitfire, but then you cant compare oldtimers with todays advanced fighters. Its like comparing Stirling Moss with Michael Schumacher, two diffrent eras.
But you can always try to imagin two legends meeting and settling the score. Spitfire Vs F16 Falcon or P51 Mustang Vs F15 Eagle, or why not let the 109 fight it out with a Mig29.. he he. :P
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You mean something like this? In formation flying the classics win, any slower and the jet begins to stall ;D
US Air Force photo:
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I voted for the Mosquito.
Being an avid aviation fan, pilot and history buff I will second the statement made by someone before that you can't compare modern and past aircraft. It is very difficult. Additionally whenever anyone asked me which was the best aircraft of all time I alway reply "the one which can perform it's intended role, and make the greatest impact." Galland when asked what he needed to defeat the English during the battle of Britain said "A squadron of Spifires!" Survivability and support requirements are also improtant factors. For example an F-15 and F-14 require much more maintenance than an F-16 or F-18.
The adaptability of the aircraft is also important. I didn't choose the P-51 since I think it is the best fighter of WWII. Ground attack was a minor role for it (A-36 Apache). Additionally it was better than the Spifire as an escort but equal as a dogfighter! See what I mean about intended roles. The Spifire was designed to intercept incoming German bombers over Britian not escort bombers to Germay. The mosquito is kinda like an F-4 Phantom, capable at everything. But the Phantom still wasn't the best dogfighter.
In the end as Galland said "ONLY THE SPIRIT OF ATTACK BORN OF A BRAVE HEART WILL BRING SUCCESS TO ANY AIRCRAFT NO MATTER HOW ADVANCED IT MAY BE".
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Eagle16 and Webmaster it is true that the Flanker and Eagle never met in actual combat but during exercises with India the USAF F-15C lost against Indian SU-30s.
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Yes, but that's not the reason why I thought of the Su-27 when talking about the F-15 for being the best fighter.
Because I think that exercise outcome was overrated, and that's coming from someone preferring Flankers. The Su-30 has a two man crew, with one concentrating on operating the radar and weapons systems. The Flanker is also more agile, but I don't think that played a major role in these fights. The F-15C has one pilot to deal with it all and is an older design. In my opinion, we don't know enough about the exercise conditions, to draw conclusions the way they are drawn by the media. For example how did the Indians engage them, with the modern R-77? Or with the off-boresight R-73 while the F-15C still carries the older AIM-9 sidewinders?
It may have looked different, if it was a Su-27. Also the F-15C crews operate mostly with AWACS backup, which wasn't included in this exercise as far as I know. Also the USAF might wanted to justify the need for the F/A-22, which was at the time being questioned by politicians and the planned acquisition numbers were subject to major cuts. Then, this was one of the first US-India exercises, I'm not saying they let them win, but I can imagine this effected reports about it.
That said, I am not saying that the Su-27/30 is not a great aircraft and does not exceed the F-15s performance. But I wouldn't jump to the conclusion of it being superior, or in our little poll being the better one. Without the F-15, the Soviets wouldn't have needed a performance fighter like the Su-27. The F-15 is a 30 year old design. The Typhoon embarrased the hell out of the F-15Cs in a mock dogfight, but I don't hear much about that anymore. Nope, the fact that a Russian fighter being exported to almost any potential buyer outperformed a US fighter is far more interesting for everyone, with the exception of maybe Boeing who tries to sell F-15 variants. But even they can use this outcome to market their upgrades and prove the neccessity of advanced radar and self-defence improvements.
Once the Indian Su-30MKI shows up with the TVC and canards, I am sure the F-15C gets beaten in a dogfight, just like the Typhoon did. You are comparing planes of different generations then. The F-15C is going out, the Su-30MKI is entering service. So it wouldn't be fair to compare those anyway.
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All valid points Niels, the two aircraft are from different generations. The F-15C used in the exercise though were from the Alaska wing and incorporate some of the latest updates to the charlie eagle. These included helmet off-boresight targeting for simulated AIM-9X shots. The exercise involved as far as I know no AWACS support for either side and no long range missle shots for either side. The primary weapons for the Indians were R-73. The Flankers played a minor role. This exercise produced substance mostly for a discussion on tactics. The USAF blamed their apparent lack of success on the prevention of Long Range missle shots and that the aircraft weren't equipped with advanced sysnthetic aperature radar. Like you pointed out used as excuses for not winning and justification for F/A-22 and updates to the F-15.
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Although not being in the list, my vote goes to Ju-88. It was truely a multimission fighter-bomber, used virtually in every role in every theater of war (dive bomber, bomber, night fighter, escort fighter, reconnaissance...)
I must add the name of Il-2 Sturmovik, although I do not like Russian WW II aircraft designs very much.. It is a very successful fighter of its era.
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But we all know that during WW2, the P51 Mustang was the best fighter. Without it the allied would have lost to many bombers and probably lost the airdomination in Europe. :)
Btw, the Swedish airforce bought a couple of them after the end of the war. They payed 3000$ for each aircraft.
Scorpion is right.
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P-51 was the best, but it was only available in the later years of WW2 as well. The Spitfire and Me109 fought from start to finish.
If Hitler would have seen things clearly, he would have fielded the Me262 as a fighter, not as a bomber, perhaps the P-51 wouldn't have looked so dominating then.
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Perhaps, but then Hitler should also have left Russia alone. Then there might have been a diffrent outcome in the war in Europe. But this way was better, now we dont have to learn german in school... ;)
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F-22 Raptor is Best of All. :)
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Old & New Jets...........
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Everybody else added their opinions so I thought "why not add mine?" I thought of a good plane that is missing on the poll. The B-52. The B-52 has been in service many years and has proved itself over time. As far as bombers go, I believe the B-52 was the best.
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P-51 (based on service length -Last flown by dominican Rep in the late '80s, actually fought in the "Soccer Wars" btwn El Salvador and Nicaragua, knocking down "newer" F4U Corsairs, and a few P-47s). Based on its use, the Mustang, ala "Run-stang" had an awesome 20:1 kill ratio and flew against the best that the Axis had to throw at them. As one quote had it " The P-51 won't do what a spitfire can do, but It CAN DO it OVER Germany".I believe that if the USAAF had went to 20mm guns on the P-47 and P-51 ,there would have been higher kill ratios for both acft. But the arugement falls down to this- which pilot KNOWS his Aircraft and his own abilities, VS his oppenent. Ol'Eric Hartmann would have waxed Yeager , and Preddy would have been "cold" meat in a run down with Galland. True Killers Like Gebretsky (P-47 jock) and "Back stabbers" like Dick Bong (P-38) would be a match for Galland and Hartmann, even though I think The FW-190 D was a BETTER plane than a BF 109 or ME-109 K
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Also ,remember this- the ONLY ALLIED fighter to shoot down a jet was the P-51!!! the German "Swallow" was faster and could reach heights but was never very manueverable and would bleed energy really bad- skilled "run-stang pilots" would "jump" the jets from above,build up to 500+mph in a dive and spray like hell enough .50 cal AP and incendiary to negate some of the ME-262s better virtues.Even if Germany's best aces had the ME-262 ,advanced Mustangs like the longer tailed p-51J& K models would have been the stop gap until the lockheed P-80 would have come on line...
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P-51 might have killed some Me-262s but remember that it was in 1944-45 and germans were basicly flying rookies then, only few "experts"(like they called them) were still flying and they were also out numbered and german target was kill the bombers not the covering fighters. Also most of the Me-262 which were shot down were lost at the time of take off or landing when the speed was low.
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Personaly I vote for B-52 - I don't think it needs any comments :)
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Interesting topic. Sorry I didn't check in sooner. For purposes of this post, I'll keep my comments to WWII warbirds. The Mosquito was a superb aircraft in all of its variations and deserves higher ranking. The Mustang and Spitfire don't have the stones to back up their public image. The Me109 was basically obsolete when the war started and Germany should have shifted production to the FW190. The best fighter(s) in the war all had round engines, to wit, P-47 (most destructive airplane in the war, the 2 top American aces in Europe, lowest loss ratio of the war .7% and that is no error), Grumman Hellcat (most aces of any allied type, 19-1 kill ratio), FW-190 Butcher Bird, Ki-84 Hayate, F4U Corsair. et al. Any comments?
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The P-51 Mustange was the best...it had good armament and plenty of munitions and was fast and reliable...thats the best plane. WWII is my favorite war to learn about...just so you think im not just coming in this forum for no reason :P
But dont worry because i dont forget the poeple who serve in the other wars...i like to learn about them aswell and have a good knowledge of all wars :) so i didnt forget the rest of you that served :)
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oops, and that still serve...and modern planes ecxite me very much :D
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P-51D Mustang flown at Iwo Jima with the 47th Fighter Wing, 15th Fighter Group.
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I think the F-15 has the best track record. The F-22s good, but not so usable.
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I think the best is the Su-27 and its variants, mainly the ones with thrust vectoring. :o
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ok iam getting kind of annoyed now, ok the tomcat was a great fighter,but is dead now,the f-18 or the f-35 are replacing them,so i know is hard but drop the" tomcat is the best fighter ever thing"!
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I agree with Raptor, the F-15 Eagle has the best track record. It was the modern fighter that all other fighters had to be measured to. It still had much more potential that what it currently has, but leave it the the US Air Force bigwigs to shoot it down, no pun intended.
What's the B-24 doing in this list?
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Here:
WWII:
P-51, P-47, F4U Corsair, F6F Hellcat, Hawker Tempest, Spitfire, Seafire.
Modern:
F-18E and F, F-35, F-15, EF-2000 Eurofighter Typhoon, Su-27 etc. Thats just IMO.
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P-51D, Gloster Meteor, Corsair, Spitfire IV
Typhoon, SU-27, Gripen, F-15E, AN-225
(An-225, so big it makes you wonder how it flies!!!)
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Yeah :o
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WWI era:
Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter, Fokker Triplane, Bristol Spad (i think)
WWII era:
P-51D Mustang, F-6F3 Hellcat, Ju-87 (i think) 'Stuka', F-4U Corsair, B-24 Liberator, Spitfire IV (i agree), Bristol Blenheim (or however it's spelt), and the jap's 'Zeke 52's, fondly known as the ZERO.
Vietnam War era:
F-104 Starfighter, Su-17 'Fitter' (is this right???), A-6 Intruder (is this right??? Again...)
Present era:
F-15E Strike Eagle, JAS-39 Gripen, F-22A Raptor, B-1B Lancer, Tu-22 'Binder', Su-27 'Flanker', and, to be patriotic, A-4SU Super Skyhawk, Su-37 Terminator (though it's way too unstable a platform) and the famed KFIR F-21 'Lion'
Enter the junkyard.
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To correct you, its Su-7 Fitter and yes A-6 Intruder is right.
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Thank you. I'm not a whiz on Russian A/C
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No problem friend.
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Ok, let's do a quick review:
The F-15E STRIKE EAGLE is leading the way with SIX votes to it's credit. Congratulations McDonnel Douglas for being the designer of such a great aeroplane, seconded by the escort fighter the P-51 MUSTANG with FIVE votes to it's name! The rest are tailing behing and somewhat lacking in supporters. By the way, it's Be 109, not Me.
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Bf-109, not Be ;D
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Sorry, that's a typo
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No problem.
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Its kinda hard to ask wether the F-22, F-35, Gripen, and the Typhoon are the best fighters, because they havent proven themselves in aerial combat.
whereas all the others have
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Its kinda hard to ask wether the F-22, F-35, Gripen, and the Typhoon are the best fighters, because they havent proven themselves in aerial combat.
whereas all the others have
It's more hypothetical, really... The planes will most likely never have to prove their full potential...
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Then why vote for them? Great planes are decided because of their actual combat ability, not their hypothetical one
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Vote based on what you think as the plane with the most potential. The most combat ability within your reasoning.
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To correct you, its Su-7 Fitter and yes A-6 Intruder is right.
In fact, there is another version of the Su-7, the Su-17/20/22, that also carries the name Fitter. So it depends to which of them you refer, Raptor.
And, Do you really think the F-104 is one of the best planes during Vietnam?? Don't you think the Thud was much better, or the Phantom II??
Finally, what improvements does the A-4SU carries?? I wanted to compare it with the A-4AR. Have you heard about it??
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Hm. Addressing the A-4 question.
There are the F-404 engines, a full computer revamp, to enable more efficient weapoms disposal, etc. A better radar (i think) and a nice sweet higher payload. Oh, yes, and a higher top speed and manueverability.
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Adressing the vietnam war...I don't think much of the Thud. I think it might be the 17. Oh, wait, it might be the 'Farmer' one...the Phantom II is a WORKHORSE. Not something like the Eagle.
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Yeah. And about the F-105 Thunderchief or 'Thud' I, like Raptor, dont think much of it...bombing, maybe but the fact that MiG-21s could come up and rip them apart...
And the Operation 'Bolo' where a flight leader lead a flight of F-4 Phantoms to act as F-105s and intercept and shoot down some MiG-21s and half of which were destroyed that day at a cost of 0 F-4s...it is spelled 'Bolo' right?
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I totally agree. Phantoms... They're Ok, but don't have a very good track record as being a nice sleek manueverable fighter...Just good speed.
I don't know about the 'Bolo', one, though...
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I like the F-4...they should have equiped it with a Vulcan though.
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I agree with you,Cobra 2, and the cannon, as I see it, shouldn't be under the radar (as in E, F, G versions) I prefer the short-nosed versions (B, C, D, J, N, S) don't know about you
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Same here, I prefer the short nosed version also.
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I think the F-4 was Ok-succesful, but i agree. Though i like the Wild Weasel F-4Gs better...
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I like the F-4G Wild Weasel too. What a nerve racking job to fly SEAD missions :o :o
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Lol. By the way, have they replaced the F-4Gs yet? Last i heard was the F-16 was being tested...
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We (the U.S.) have probably already replaced them decades ago didnt we?
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Oh, yeah. I think the EF-111s are doing basically the same thing now...
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EF is the electronic warfare version right?
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EF-111 Raven. Yes.
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E or EF usually means its an electronic warfare version ;) except for the EF-2000 Typhoon.
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I think the best fighter of the history is the F-15, because no F-15 was shot down in the history (correct me if i am wrong).