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Author Topic: Convair F-106 vs Mc Donnel Douglas F-4B Phantom  (Read 26920 times)

Offline valkyrian

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Convair F-106 vs Mc Donnel Douglas F-4B Phantom
« on: June 30, 2007, 07:07:49 PM »
In October 1961, the pentagon launched an air to air competition between Air Defence Command's F-106 and Navy's brand new F-4H1 Phantom. 153 sorties were flown, half for each type, from altitudes 500-62.000 ft, during which 349 valid interceptions were completed. Phantom was proved superior, mainly due to the newer APQ-72 radar which showed better availability and reliability. The -6's MA-1 was said to have some repeated problems. So Tactical command was to buy the F-4 and ADC would get no new 6's....

BUT.....

since no one likes to lose, especially when knows that he wasn't favored at all, Convair complaint that the very best navy pilots were put against the ...very worst 6 drivers, and the maintenance of the -6 was not appropriate. Convair engineers knew that the -6 had a very serious potential in dogfights, and in later years a pilot said :" the F-4 had longer ranged missile (AIM-7) but we kicked F-4 butts each and every day in the visual arena. We owned the vertical on  him, we got our energy back much much faster, had as good or better sustained turn, most altitudes, and our instantaneous turn rate was also as good. He could never match our zoom when we hit the fight with any sort of knots. Falcon missiles had logic the early Sparrow were missing. Falcon loved the beam intercept (early Sparrows hated it) and also loved ECM's unlike the AIM-7.A pilot who have flown both types said : the -6, exhibited outstanding nose authority enabling the pilot to employ lag maneuvers to gain position to fire AIM-4G directly at the tailpipe, then pull the nose into a lead position to employ the AIM-4F or the guns.  The altitude capability of the -6, meant that we comfortably CAP at 45.000+ ft, perform a pincer front to stern attack with IRST  and slide in behind a flight of F-4's without notice.

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: Convair F-106 vs Mc Donnel Douglas F-4B Phantom
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2007, 02:42:41 PM »
YES!! :D a thread on the SIX!!

And I bet on the six too :)

In a magazine I have, an ex F-106 pilot says: Give me the avionics of the F-15 and I'll beat it anytime ;)

That means, the six couldn't even come close to the F-15 because of one little thing called AIM-120 but in the dogfight, it would outmaneuver the eagle.

I wonder why not to cheat and put a Ginny on the thing.... if they were a squadron of F-16 Fighting Falcon they would all fall like bricks!!! >:D
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Offline valkyrian

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Re: Convair F-106 vs Mc Donnel Douglas F-4B Phantom
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2007, 04:36:37 PM »
Wow! Wait a minute Thomas. The-6 better than the Eagle in close in? I don't believe it....the Eagle was designed for this, the -6 was designed to fly high and fast.........

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: Convair F-106 vs Mc Donnel Douglas F-4B Phantom
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2007, 08:04:03 PM »
But I believe what the guy said...let me find the mag'.. ::)

and the ginny is a god thing it had >:D
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Offline valkyrian

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Re: Convair F-106 vs Mc Donnel Douglas F-4B Phantom
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2007, 11:37:16 PM »
I think you mean the nuclear tipped Genie missile....pretty cool, it should exterminate not only the enemies but even the carrier aircraft....

Offline Cobra2

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Re: Convair F-106 vs Mc Donnel Douglas F-4B Phantom
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2007, 01:27:11 AM »
Oh yeah lol the AIR-2 Genie, or MB-1 Genie...I belive the F-106 carries the MB-1 right? not AIR-2. I wondered what he was talking about...I thought it was avionics or something  :D

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: Convair F-106 vs Mc Donnel Douglas F-4B Phantom
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2007, 03:31:25 AM »
yep, that one, pretty cool, would use it too for air to ground... maybe anti-personnel, futurist napalm :o >:D

And yes, I am against nuclear weapons ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Cobra2

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Re: Convair F-106 vs Mc Donnel Douglas F-4B Phantom
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2007, 03:35:27 AM »
I heard the AIR-2 can destroy ALL aircraft within a 5-mile radius!  including the aircraft that fired it  :P  And its unguided. All together though, I think an AIM-120 is better and I would choose it over the Genie. And has the genie ever been test fired? I can't see the good in a missile like that. And can the pilot set the time for it too explode? like 10 miles, 15 miles, 20 miles?

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: Convair F-106 vs Mc Donnel Douglas F-4B Phantom
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2007, 04:03:40 AM »
No, it hasn't been proved in combat (at least that we know) and yes, proved yes (I don't know if with the nuclear head though), cause i have a picture of it being lauched. Wait that I have my scanner... though you'll find it if you google.

Ok, you have to position yourself back in that time, when the bomber missions were flown at high altitudes, and hence, the interceptor flown at those altitudes to. With this I mean that the interceptor, in this case the six, has the ability to fly at Mach 2.something depending on the load.

That means you're out the 5 miles in which the missile can hurt you by the time it reaches its objective. So it's ok.

And they say it was extremely maneuverable too, that's why they installed a M-61 on it ;) instead of the AIR-2   :(
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Offline Icarus

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Re: Convair F-106 vs Mc Donnel Douglas F-4B Phantom
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2007, 04:24:20 PM »
Indeed the Six was just a great aircraft for it's time. Unfortunately the true performance of the Falcon made the M61 the only good knife it had when it entered the phone booth...Now, a Six vs. an Eagle with a typical Eagle C avionics/sensors/radar package, it could have a chance, but the same would go if you did it to the Sabre, so I think this is a bit of an overstatement lol. On the dogfight arena, the Eagle is just too specifically designed to be powerful and maneuverable for the Six to beat it. It would be a harder fight than a Phantom with an Eagle however (I believe).

What other aircraft flew for a superpower from the late 50s to the late 80s in the rapidly-changing Cold War arena. Only after the F-teen models came up did the Six become obsolete. That was quite an aircraft. We operated many of them here in Greece too and from what I've heard, we loved them too !

Offline valkyrian

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Re: Convair F-106 vs Mc Donnel Douglas F-4B Phantom
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2007, 11:41:03 PM »
Dear Thomas, when flying at (lets say) Mach 2, the 6 would not be able to pull many g's (due to center of pressure movement) so it could take  a 6's pilot to fly a huge circle in order to turn back. By that time, i think the nuclear blast would have reached him. I think that the tactic would be a missile launch at 1.2 Mach (in order to give the missile kinetic energy to reach further) then turn, and accelerate to max Mach (in order to get away from the explosion).

Icarus, unfortunately we operated F-102s not F-106s..........

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: Convair F-106 vs Mc Donnel Douglas F-4B Phantom
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2007, 11:47:53 PM »
You are so right, valkyrian. My fault there :-[

And yes, I was going to say that, only 102s for you, sorry, but they are not near as nice the 6 is :S i think Turkey also had some of them.
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